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Why bother?

Apr 13, 2008
1,520
2,924
Greece
Ok, I've been meaning to create this thread because, genuinely, I can't really find it in me anymore to be bothered to play in bands.

A little history. I've played in many bands for many years and, while I did have some good experiences, I realized lately that, the bad were... well, more! I've played bass and guitars and did vocals at some point as well and I had to deal with guitarists and their overinflated egos, bassists that couldn't really play, drummers who couldn't be arsed to learn a tune, vocalists that were utterly unapologetically absent from rehearsals and so on and so forth.

And yet, I "endured" through much of it because, sometimes, the music was worth it, we used to get paid much, MUCH more, there were more joints to play in etc.
Lately, however, while I play in a band, I'm realizing again that I'm just kind of "sick" of it all. There are issues and I honestly expect at least some issues with any band, to be honest but it was actually last night's gig that really drove the point home.

So, long story short, we play a gig in another city, the pay doesn't cover expenses, we have to even dip into the very modest band fund and for what? To play in front of a crowd that couldn't give less of a toss.
Gig before that, we play on a Thursday, in a semi-empty venue, barely making anything.
Next week's gig seems like it's going to be pretty much the same deal. Just play the same ol' tired songs, for very few people, get paid next to nothing, with whatever that pay is going to a band fund that ends up funding BS endeavors like last night's excursion.

Now you'd be right in suggesting I just leave this band and try and look for something different and more fulfilling, and herein likes the thread's title.
Let me paint you a picture.

While I live in a fairly large city, there are very few "venues" available to play in, and most of them are either overbooked (by bands), the pay is @#$ everywhere, very few people show up and all I/we end up doing is working up a sweat on stage with nothing else to show for it other than (supposed) bragging rights and a few posts on the band's instagram page.

I know of very few cover bands that actually make much or have a steady gig and most originals bands end up playing in the same venue over and over and over with nothing much to show for it.

Back before the days when social media were pretty much nonexistent, things were different. There were more venues available, we got paid and bands had to "work" and play well to earn their gigs. Nowadays, it's all a social media game with likes and shares and whatever else which accounts for jack #@$& in real life, really.

With those in mind... Why bother being in a band? Since it's pretty much like trying to get water from the dried up well that is the local "scene", what's the point? Why bother paying for rehearsals and going to gigs when you gain nothing and, at the end of the day, you just feel empty and dissatisfied with the whole situation?

As it seems to be just a social media game nowadays, I can and would rather just sit at home, create my music myself, record everything and put it out there for whomever might find want to take a listen. At the end of the day, I do believe that's what it's all about. Sharing your music with the rest of the world. I just can't justify all the wasted time, bad gigs, inequilibrium in expenses/pay. It seems to me that it's more an unwelcome hassle to be in a band and to be chasing hopeless gigs.

Now, I do not that it might be very different wherever any of you might reside but I'm honestly just dishearted, disappointed, disillusioned and ultimately, sick of the whole "bands/gigs" thing.

And once again in this forum, sorry for the long read, I do hope I've made some kind of sense!
 
I seem to be giving this advice a lot lately. But start you own band. Quit relying on others to out together a band you can just step into and expect perfection.

Be picky. Take your time. Turn down ANYONE who doesn't fit into EXACTLY the plan you have for a band. Be clear about your goals. Take your time. Let any new members who are brought in help with finding the final puzzle pieces.

Once you get the band formed, indulge yourselves a few times per set. Play a few songs that you have ALWAYS wanted to play.... songs that bring you joy.... songs that the audience might not "get" but you don't care. Sure, give them a dozen smash hits per set. Then hit them between the eyes with an unabashed MUSICIAN'S song.

Only play the places you want to play. Only play as often as you want. Only take the gigs that are easier, even if that means you play out less.

Do music on YOUR terms.

My band took MONTHS to out together. Now they are some of my best friends. We make great music amd enjoy time together. In a couple hours I'm leaving to go to a band Christmas party where all of our spouses and kids will be in attendance. That's how much we like each other.

Sorry for posting this pic so much lately. But I'm proud of my band of friends. I'm the guy with the long hair in the back. And this is my bad @$$ dad band.... and a mom. :cool: We're gonna be partying together later while our kids play together. Mrs.Fingers has agreed to designated driver status.:hyper: (No, I won't get hammered in front of my kids. But I likely won't be in a position to drive either.)
t50-43.jpg


My wife has watched me play for over 12 years now. Even she has noticed that this is what I look like on stage most if the time.
20191124_183213.jpg


Yeah....start your own band... and find the JOY that music used to bring you. Good luck!
 
Just work on your own music at home and take a break from gigging. Maybe later you will want to play again.
+1. If you fear that severing ties with your local musician community during your hiatus would be too detrimental, offer yourself up as a sub/hired gun. That way, you can accept and decline gigs as you see fit without all of the unnecessary band drama you've been enduring for years.
 
I seem to be giving this advice a lot lately. But start you own band. Quit relying on others to out together a band you can just step into and expect perfection.

Be picky. Take your time. Turn down ANYONE who doesn't fit into EXACTLY the plan you have for a band. Be clear about your goals. Take your time. Let any new members who are brought in help with finding the final puzzle pieces.

Once you get the band formed, indulge yourselves a few times per set. Play a few songs that you have ALWAYS wanted to play.... songs that bring you joy.... songs that the audience might not "get" but you don't care. Sure, give them a dozen smash hits per set. Then hit them between the eyes with an unabashed MUSICIAN'S song.

Only play the places you want to play. Only play as often as you want. Only take the gigs that are easier, even if that means you play out less.

Do music on YOUR terms.

My band took MONTHS to out together. Now they are some of my best friends. We make great music amd enjoy time together. In a couple hours I'm leaving to go to a band Christmas party where all of our spouses and kids will be in attendance. That's how much we like each other.

Sorry for posting this pic so much lately. But I'm proud of my band of friends. I'm the guy with the long hair in the back. And this is my bad @$$ dad band.... and a mom. :cool: We're gonna be partying together later while our kids play together. Mrs.Fingers has agreed to designated driver status.:hyper: (No, I won't get hammered in front of my kids. But I likely won't be in a position to drive either.)
View attachment 3622197

My wife has watched me play for over 12 years now. Even she has noticed that this is what I look like on stage most if the time.
View attachment 3622198

Yeah....start your own band... and find the JOY that music used to bring you. Good luck!

This post is definitely inspiring. I'm glad to hear someone out there was able to put something together that's successful. I've often toyed around with the idea of doing this, but then I start thinking about the logistics (and the money). I don't have the funds right now to start a business, which is essentially what a band is. However, it has to feel great to FINALLY have what you want.
 
I can't imagine a bassist being happy playing without a band. But no one says you have to be gigging regularly. I play in a jazz band. Other than "dinner music", it's almost impossible to find decent gigs. So every week, we get together and play some great music. When a gig comes up, we take it. I gig more often playing rock, but that's a different situation.
 
Ok, I've been meaning to create this thread because, genuinely, I can't really find it in me anymore to be bothered to play in bands.

A little history. I've played in many bands for many years and, while I did have some good experiences, I realized lately that, the bad were... well, more! I've played bass and guitars and did vocals at some point as well and I had to deal with guitarists and their overinflated egos, bassists that couldn't really play, drummers who couldn't be arsed to learn a tune, vocalists that were utterly unapologetically absent from rehearsals and so on and so forth.

And yet, I "endured" through much of it because, sometimes, the music was worth it, we used to get paid much, MUCH more, there were more joints to play in etc.
Lately, however, while I play in a band, I'm realizing again that I'm just kind of "sick" of it all. There are issues and I honestly expect at least some issues with any band, to be honest but it was actually last night's gig that really drove the point home.

So, long story short, we play a gig in another city, the pay doesn't cover expenses, we have to even dip into the very modest band fund and for what? To play in front of a crowd that couldn't give less of a toss.
Gig before that, we play on a Thursday, in a semi-empty venue, barely making anything.
Next week's gig seems like it's going to be pretty much the same deal. Just play the same ol' tired songs, for very few people, get paid next to nothing, with whatever that pay is going to a band fund that ends up funding BS endeavors like last night's excursion.

Now you'd be right in suggesting I just leave this band and try and look for something different and more fulfilling, and herein likes the thread's title.
Let me paint you a picture.

While I live in a fairly large city, there are very few "venues" available to play in, and most of them are either overbooked (by bands), the pay is @#$ everywhere, very few people show up and all I/we end up doing is working up a sweat on stage with nothing else to show for it other than (supposed) bragging rights and a few posts on the band's instagram page.

I know of very few cover bands that actually make much or have a steady gig and most originals bands end up playing in the same venue over and over and over with nothing much to show for it.

Back before the days when social media were pretty much nonexistent, things were different. There were more venues available, we got paid and bands had to "work" and play well to earn their gigs. Nowadays, it's all a social media game with likes and shares and whatever else which accounts for jack #@$& in real life, really.

With those in mind... Why bother being in a band? Since it's pretty much like trying to get water from the dried up well that is the local "scene", what's the point? Why bother paying for rehearsals and going to gigs when you gain nothing and, at the end of the day, you just feel empty and dissatisfied with the whole situation?

As it seems to be just a social media game nowadays, I can and would rather just sit at home, create my music myself, record everything and put it out there for whomever might find want to take a listen. At the end of the day, I do believe that's what it's all about. Sharing your music with the rest of the world. I just can't justify all the wasted time, bad gigs, inequilibrium in expenses/pay. It seems to me that it's more an unwelcome hassle to be in a band and to be chasing hopeless gigs.

Now, I do not that it might be very different wherever any of you might reside but I'm honestly just dishearted, disappointed, disillusioned and ultimately, sick of the whole "bands/gigs" thing.

And once again in this forum, sorry for the long read, I do hope I've made some kind of sense!

I’m with you man!

I haven’t suffered from the poor musicianship thing much. I like to surround myself with superior players so I can push myself a little harder. Bandsmanship? That’s another thing altogether. Anyways...

I agree with you that the bar cover band scene has changed and likely due to many factors that are hard to untangle: demographics, social media, DUI laws, Smoking laws, etc etc. Whatever the cause is, there’s still the name number of bands looking to play fewer and fewer venues. And even those venues don’t attract enough “music fans”. I found myself playing between periods in playoff hockey games quite a bit.

I’m of the opinion that you need to go where the people are and the people are online, not bars (or even radio anymore). Instead of playing to 50 bar patrons once every couple of weeks, imagine having your act seen by thousands (every week? every year?) That’s the Band Geek and Scary Pockets model. And that’s why Tiny Desk, KEXP and many more are so popular for established and up and coming acts.

I’m trying to both the bands I play with to try this. We rehearse regularly for gigs well never do (since no one is actively looking for gigs), we all have some sort of goal to “record an album”, so why not put some effort into recording audio/video and do the YouTube, instagram, etc thing?

My particular cohort is still stuck in pre-MTV thinking (let alone pre-Internet), so it’s been an interesting journey and no one really quite understands what’s involved.

Anyways, all that to say is that two of the three bands I’ve spent the last 20 years playing with in one form or another are permanently done with gigging. And to a man, we have thousands of gigs under our belts.

Even the still-gigging band’s BL admitted to me recently that he doesn’t see how bar cover band gigs will be sustainable for much longer. He puts in a serious amount of effort to keep his band going and booked and it gets harder and harder very month.
 
Many thanks to everyone for your input guys!

@two fingers Happy for you man and I do get your point but it's nigh impossible over here. I've been searching for those "golden" bandmates for years now and nothing turned out the way you describe it. Much less so, really...

Well, it sounds like you already have a plan. Just work on your own music at home and take a break from gigging. Maybe later you will want to play again.

+1. If you fear that severing ties with your local musician community during your hiatus would be too detrimental, offer yourself up as a sub/hired gun. That way, you can accept and decline gigs as you see fit without all of the unnecessary band drama you've been enduring for years.

I'm already working on my tunes at home but yeah, Garp's right about me not wanting to completely detach myself from the whole "scene", whatever that might be. You never know, I suppose. The hired gun thing is really nonexistent here though. Most bands are either weekend warriors or looking for someone to really commit to some band's vision, both musically as well as financially and I can't really afford too much of either, right now, with the situation being what it is.

This post is definitely inspiring. I'm glad to hear someone out there was able to put something together that's successful. I've often toyed around with the idea of doing this, but then I start thinking about the logistics (and the money). I don't have the funds right now to start a business, which is essentially what a band is. However, it has to feel great to FINALLY have what you want.

Yeah, as I said above, I neither can nor want to commit to a dead end thing, especially financially...

I can't imagine a bassist being happy playing without a band. But no one says you have to be gigging regularly. I play in a jazz band. Other than "dinner music", it's almost impossible to find decent gigs. So every week, we get together and play some great music. When a gig comes up, we take it. I gig more often playing rock, but that's a different situation.

...and on that note, I must say I'd really love to do what you're describing. Just get together with a bunch of good players (and nice people) once a week or so, play some cover tunes we all like, jam, have fun and that's that. No chasing fruitless gigs, no chasing that "big break", no financial BS, just pure fun. Just like it was back then!

I’m with you man!

I haven’t suffered from the poor musicianship thing much. I like to surround myself with superior players so I can push myself a little harder. Bandsmanship? That’s another thing altogether. Anyways...

I agree with you that the bar cover band scene has changed and likely due to many factors that are hard to untangle: demographics, social media, DUI laws, Smoking laws, etc etc. Whatever the cause is, there’s still the name number of bands looking to play fewer and fewer venues. And even those venues don’t attract enough “music fans”. I found myself playing between periods in playoff hockey games quite a bit.

I’m of the opinion that you need to go where the people are and the people are online, not bars (or even radio anymore). Instead of playing to 50 bar patrons once every couple of weeks, imagine having your act seen by thousands (every week? every year?) That’s the Band Geek and Scary Pockets model. And that’s why Tiny Desk, KEXP and many more are so popular for established and up and coming acts.

I’m trying to both the bands I play with to try this. We rehearse regularly for gigs well never do (since no one is actively looking for gigs), we all have some sort of goal to “record an album”, so why not put some effort into recording audio/video and do the YouTube, instagram, etc thing?

My particular cohort is still stuck in pre-MTV thinking (let alone pre-Internet), so it’s been an interesting journey and no one really quite understands what’s involved.

Anyways, all that to say is that two of the three bands I’ve spent the last 20 years playing with in one form or another are permanently done with gigging. And to a man, we have thousands of gigs under our belts.

Even the still-gigging band’s BL admitted to me recently that he doesn’t see how bar cover band gigs will be sustainable for much longer. He puts in a serious amount of effort to keep his band going and booked and it gets harder and harder very month.

In the band I'm in currently, I'm trying to nudge them towards just doing the youtube thing. If it's covers, it's covers. And covers do help, especially on youtube. You can pepper in your own stuff but I think covers are best to start with and a nice production and a good enough mix can get you a long way. I doubt they'll go for it but a dude can hope!

I can't say myself I like the situation, to be honest, however. I really liked the fact that you actually had to be a good musician and a tight band to be successful. Now it's a whole different ball game and I may sound like an old fart (I'm not, really) but I don't care for it at all.

Oh well, the times, they are a-changing!
 
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Many thanks to everyone for your input guys!
...
I can't say myself I like the situation, to be honest, however. I really liked the fact that you actually had to be a good musician and a tight band to be successful. Now it's a whole different ball game and I may sound like an old fart (I'm not, really) but I don't care for it at all.

Oh well, the times, they are a-changing!

That’s for sure!

I think it’s this definition of success that those of us that are more “seasoned” and perhaps do not do this to support ourselves are having trouble with.

The old “write-record-tour” model has been disrupted for the “pros” and this has trickled down to us weekend warriors in our “gather-rehearse-gig” model. The pros have adapted, the weekend warriors have not.

Unfortunately, many of us weekend warriors (young or old) haven’t recognized this and assume we can do in 2019 what we did in 1969, 1979, 1989, 1999 or hell even 2009 and still have it work.

So what does it mean to be a successful amateur cover band musician in 2019? I still think being a good musician in a tight band are still key ingredients- it’s the mode of delivery that needs a rethink.

The way I put it is this - in our old conceptualization, the typical bar gig cover band works up 50-ish tunes, spends a hundred hours rehearsing them and then spends 8 hours each gig travelling, setting up and performing. Say you do that 25 times a year and say you average 100 ppl in attendance each gig.

So in that first year, the band has spent 300 hours playing the same 50 tunes to approximately 2500 people over the course of that year. The limits of time and space will constrain that number unless the band breaks big. As an individual, you might have earned $2500 gross, a lot less net.

So, in a new contextualization, take that same 300 hours of effort and create 30 decent quality videos (with good quality audio) over the course of the year from the 30 best songs in your set list and upload that to YouTube, Insta, FB, Twitter, whatever. And I’m not talking about uploading a gig video on your Facebook page. Now, even if you only get 100 views per video, you’ve exceeded the number of people that would have seen you in a bar. And these are “fans” of the music who have actively consumed your content, not passive bar-goers who might be paying attention to you for a small fraction of the time. Now, 100 views is a pretty low number. Even the lamest videos on my own YouTube channel have had thousands of views.

As such, this breaks through the constraints of time and space - anyone anywhere in the world can watch your content as many times as they like. Your audience has increased by at least one or two orders of magnitude for the same amount of effort.

Question is: could you monetize this content in the same way a bar pays you to perform? That’s a little more difficult. But in my current context, we have zero bar gig revenue right now, so even a few bucks a month each is better than what we currently have!

And finally, I do recognize that there’s no substitute for playing to a live audience. I’m not arguing that we don’t. I’m just arguing that we might think about lowering our collective expectations of that channel, modernize our thinking around delivery and perhaps exploit the virtual options more effectively.

I’ve got one band almost 100% there in that thinking and I’m about 66% there with the other band. Now, I’m personally interested and capable in the art and science of video and audio recording and have the gear and skills to do this for my bands.

If a band doesn’t have this, of course it’s so much more difficult to get started. The cool thing is that it’s never been easier and cheaper to do it!!!
 
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To add to my previous post - in the first band, I’ve got the workflow down for a very decent multitrack band recording, live off the floor. Our first kick at the can, we ran through a dozen or so tunes. Didn’t get a great take with any of them so I’m going to suggest we spend our next 3 hour “rehearsal” (Jam/session) together working up one really good take of one or two tunes max. Then I take those tracks/video home and spend a few hours editing/mixing/mastering. Between now and the first day of summer next year, we could have upwards 25-30 individual pieces of content completed.

All with the same effort we put into “rehearsing” for a gig that’ll never happen and with only a little extra incremental effort on my part to have an audience that’s exponentially larger than what we have now.
 
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Ok, I've been meaning to create this thread because, genuinely, I can't really find it in me anymore to be bothered to play in bands.

A little history. I've played in many bands for many years and, while I did have some good experiences, I realized lately that, the bad were... well, more! I've played bass and guitars and did vocals at some point as well and I had to deal with guitarists and their overinflated egos, bassists that couldn't really play, drummers who couldn't be arsed to learn a tune, vocalists that were utterly unapologetically absent from rehearsals and so on and so forth.

And yet, I "endured" through much of it because, sometimes, the music was worth it, we used to get paid much, MUCH more, there were more joints to play in etc.
Lately, however, while I play in a band, I'm realizing again that I'm just kind of "sick" of it all. There are issues and I honestly expect at least some issues with any band, to be honest but it was actually last night's gig that really drove the point home.

So, long story short, we play a gig in another city, the pay doesn't cover expenses, we have to even dip into the very modest band fund and for what? To play in front of a crowd that couldn't give less of a toss.
Gig before that, we play on a Thursday, in a semi-empty venue, barely making anything.
Next week's gig seems like it's going to be pretty much the same deal. Just play the same ol' tired songs, for very few people, get paid next to nothing, with whatever that pay is going to a band fund that ends up funding BS endeavors like last night's excursion.

Now you'd be right in suggesting I just leave this band and try and look for something different and more fulfilling, and herein likes the thread's title.
Let me paint you a picture.

While I live in a fairly large city, there are very few "venues" available to play in, and most of them are either overbooked (by bands), the pay is @#$ everywhere, very few people show up and all I/we end up doing is working up a sweat on stage with nothing else to show for it other than (supposed) bragging rights and a few posts on the band's instagram page.

I know of very few cover bands that actually make much or have a steady gig and most originals bands end up playing in the same venue over and over and over with nothing much to show for it.

Back before the days when social media were pretty much nonexistent, things were different. There were more venues available, we got paid and bands had to "work" and play well to earn their gigs. Nowadays, it's all a social media game with likes and shares and whatever else which accounts for jack #@$& in real life, really.

With those in mind... Why bother being in a band? Since it's pretty much like trying to get water from the dried up well that is the local "scene", what's the point? Why bother paying for rehearsals and going to gigs when you gain nothing and, at the end of the day, you just feel empty and dissatisfied with the whole situation?

As it seems to be just a social media game nowadays, I can and would rather just sit at home, create my music myself, record everything and put it out there for whomever might find want to take a listen. At the end of the day, I do believe that's what it's all about. Sharing your music with the rest of the world. I just can't justify all the wasted time, bad gigs, inequilibrium in expenses/pay. It seems to me that it's more an unwelcome hassle to be in a band and to be chasing hopeless gigs.

Now, I do not that it might be very different wherever any of you might reside but I'm honestly just dishearted, disappointed, disillusioned and ultimately, sick of the whole "bands/gigs" thing.

And once again in this forum, sorry for the long read, I do hope I've made some kind of sense!
I can definitely relate to some of this. I left a band I was in for more than a decade earlier this year. Have a new project now that’s challenging and fun and my enthusiasm for playing in a band has been renewed. So I definitely agree with Two Fingers. Maybe it’s time for a change. Maybe if you can write your own music at home and put it online it’s time to start your own project or at least find a project that you're more excited about wether you continue to gig or not. Personally I like gigging. I don't need to make a bunch of money from gigs. But getting trapped in the playing local gigs every single weekend does suck. If you’re playing original music I would recommend not playing more than two gigs per month. Reason for this is if you cut back the amount of gigs you play you can start to weed out the gigs that aren’t as much fun. But also gigging constantly makes it really difficult for original local bands who have day jobs to push themselves online because it makes it difficult to create good content to put online. So instead of playing gigs every weekend it’s good for original bands to take a weekend off to do things like make a music video for example. It’s also good to have a week off here and there to have a good rehearsal and change up the set list so the show doesn’t get stale.
 
It can be fun, it can be worthwhile, etc...but then it can be stressful, a lot of headache and bother if you don't have lets just say "decent" band mates. I have been bandless for years now, I find it more enjoyable now to be a hobbyist and occasional jam session bassist now. Mainly because it allows me more time to do other things I enjoy...a band can take up a lot of your time as well. At least it did me and I put a lot of time into it, just for it to fold one day but that is my last situation.
 
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Since i have none of the expectations expressed in this discussion, i feel just fine with my musical hobby. I’m still in the same band i was a founding member of and while the years have drastically changed how we operate, getting together with this group is always an anticipated event for me. We worked a lot in the 90’s, then life, kids, professional responsibilities, etc. changed that situation drastically. These days we are scattered over several states and manage to get together at least a couple times a year and usually wrangle a private party, frat house, or spring festival job or two all along, but there’s as much friendship in that motivation as desire to make music together. None of us do it for the money these days, back when the money was important, even vital to various members at various times, there were many nights i simply handed my cut to whichever member might be struggling in that regard, kids and new career paths can be expensive on the front end so you do what you can to help out.
Anywho, making music with these guys is the most spiritually satisfying thing i’ve ever done and as we all move closer to our final shuffle, i feel at peace with myself knowing i’ve been fortunate enough to be a part of such an incredible group of friends and fellow travelers.
As for my musical time between? I fill that with jams, playing with family, working with my brother ( and long time fellow band member) in his home studio recording demos for his songs as well as other optimistic writers of prose. And like so many things, i can stand on my head whistling Dixie while molten led is poured in my bunghole as long as i know it's temporary, so i have zero cause to become angst ridden over anything even remotely related to music, because music is only real until the last note fades, that’s when life steps in and forces us to do all the mind numbing, boring repetitive tasks required to get to the next opportunity to generate pure joy in a collective bashing of wood and wire.
The single exception in all this bliss was Jethro Tull being kicked out of his own band. Some things just cannot be forgiven. :D

peace on earth and good will to all mankind y’all.
Hug a complete stranger this holiday season. It’s good for the soul, as long as you don’t get arrested