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Why Cliff Williams = Genius
- Thread starter Toadsmacker
- Start date
Cliff Williams may not be a virtuoso, but he plays as tight or tighter than just about anyone. His playing is perfect for AC/DC.
On a side note, anyone who says "Wooten or Flea wouldn't fit with that band" should maybe take another look at it. While of course mad slapping or "Amazing Grace"-ness wouldn't fit with AC/DC, I think that such talented musicians as those two for example know this just as well as us. I think that they certainly could and would alter their playing to fit the music. I don't think anyone questions that Wooten or Flea has the ability to play say, Cliff's, Gene Simmons', or Dee Dee's style of bass. Just look at Wooten with Bela Fleck. Not over the top at all.
On a side note, anyone who says "Wooten or Flea wouldn't fit with that band" should maybe take another look at it. While of course mad slapping or "Amazing Grace"-ness wouldn't fit with AC/DC, I think that such talented musicians as those two for example know this just as well as us. I think that they certainly could and would alter their playing to fit the music. I don't think anyone questions that Wooten or Flea has the ability to play say, Cliff's, Gene Simmons', or Dee Dee's style of bass. Just look at Wooten with Bela Fleck. Not over the top at all.
Once again, too many of us take our favorite bands/musicians too seriously, and get our feelings nicked when somebody else doesn't like them. Personally, I'm gonna listen to what I want, and don't give a rat's a$$ whether anybody else likes it or dislikes it.
That being said, there's an interview with Angus and Brian where they were asked how they felt when a critic said they had released 10 albums that all sounded alike. Angus was quick to point out that statement was so untrue. He then added "We have ELEVEN albums that all sound alike!"
If they can take themselves lightly and not give a crap what people say, us fanboys can certainly do the same!
That being said, there's an interview with Angus and Brian where they were asked how they felt when a critic said they had released 10 albums that all sounded alike. Angus was quick to point out that statement was so untrue. He then added "We have ELEVEN albums that all sound alike!"
If they can take themselves lightly and not give a crap what people say, us fanboys can certainly do the same!
using this as an argument for someone else's greatness is a logical fallacy. It also got used a while back in the thread by someone else.
just wanted to point that out.
I've loved AC/DC's music for years. I love what Cliff brings to the music and I can not imagine anyone doing it any better.
To paraphrase a comment I read about Phil Rudd.... "AC/DC's drummer hardly ever plays a fill- and there's a lot to be learned from that"
To paraphrase a comment I read about Phil Rudd.... "AC/DC's drummer hardly ever plays a fill- and there's a lot to be learned from that"
Two thoughts:
A lot of these cagey old pros (Cliff Williams, Gene Simmons, etc.) are perfectly capable of playing a whole lot more notes & more quickly than they often do. 200 gigs a year for a few decades will probably give you monster chops no matter how hard you try to avoid them.
And yet they don't play so many notes.
Which brings up my second thought - for me "genius" or the less-controversial term "brilliant" is often defined as finding a simple solution to a complex problem. E=mc^2 anyone? Which is why I consider John Bonham to be a brilliant player / musical genius - he was able to find the simple, plowing-ahead path through the often highly syncopated stuff Jimmy Page came up with.
In the same way, Cliff's playing is brilliant.
A lot of these cagey old pros (Cliff Williams, Gene Simmons, etc.) are perfectly capable of playing a whole lot more notes & more quickly than they often do. 200 gigs a year for a few decades will probably give you monster chops no matter how hard you try to avoid them.
And yet they don't play so many notes.
Which brings up my second thought - for me "genius" or the less-controversial term "brilliant" is often defined as finding a simple solution to a complex problem. E=mc^2 anyone? Which is why I consider John Bonham to be a brilliant player / musical genius - he was able to find the simple, plowing-ahead path through the often highly syncopated stuff Jimmy Page came up with.
In the same way, Cliff's playing is brilliant.
I am a big fan of his tone and playing and the band, I would like to comment on something else.
My playing has been solely judged based on band recordings. And I thought "well that's not fair, this is only a small portion of what I can do". And its something I think I only really understood as I got older. But there are a lot of guys out there like Cliff that just do their job, but will not get credit for their entire ability. Not every musical situation is an outlet for one's full potential as a player.
My playing has been solely judged based on band recordings. And I thought "well that's not fair, this is only a small portion of what I can do". And its something I think I only really understood as I got older. But there are a lot of guys out there like Cliff that just do their job, but will not get credit for their entire ability. Not every musical situation is an outlet for one's full potential as a player.
^^ great point. I remember hearing Neal Schon of Journey brag about about how he could play all that stuff Eddie Van Halen was playing, and about how good he was at this or that type of playing, etc, but that none of that fit the Journey-style of melodic pop-rock. (He certainly had a point, but Schon IMO just came across as a whiner.)
So, yeah, definitely what we hear released is barely the tip of the iceberg of what a lot of these guys actually CAN play. I applaud those guys who let the music come first, and their ego second.
So, yeah, definitely what we hear released is barely the tip of the iceberg of what a lot of these guys actually CAN play. I applaud those guys who let the music come first, and their ego second.
i've heard really great jazz players get their asses handed to them when a simple rock song comes on. and i've even heard great rock bass players get their asses handed to them playing ac/dc. doug wimbish is a great player and has way more chops than cliffy, but ever hear living colour's cover of "back in black"? it sucks. so don't assume that vic could step in and kick it like cliff just because he's got more chops. there's a reason cliff has lasted 34 years with ac/dc.
I stand corrected. I'll take your word for it, you have much more experience than I. I still stand by my point that just because a particular musician plays ridiculously in one context, doesn't mean that they couldn't/wouldn't play simple, tasteful lines in another. (examples, Wooten with Bela Fleck, Hendrix/Clapton on other artists' albums, Flea with Thom Yorke, Alanis Morrisette, etc.)
This thread has had the effect of making me go back and listen critically to Ac/DC, and as a result, I now have a lot more respect for them than I did a week ago.
Yeah I mean especially for the bass player, its hard to find music that will allow you to stray from the roots and groove, and play in open space. Unless you play Jazz, progrock... two genres that will most likely leave you in obscurity.
But let me just say for those who think AC-DC is easy music,so far from the truth. Not that they don't exist, but I have never EVER heard anyone play an AC-DC song as good or better then the band themselves. Their songs do not leave much room for artistic interpretation, as compared to say the Beatles, that you can remake and make their music your own. The combination of songwriting and stand outs on each instrument make it near impossible for another group to replicate. And I think that beyond all reasons, that is why AC-DC is one of the greatest bands in history. Put them in the top 10 easily.
And please send me any links to another group that can come close to sounding as good as the originals.
"Perfection is achieved, not when there is nothing more to add, but when there is nothing left to take away." - Antoine de Saint Exupéry
"Rock and Roll Aint Noise Pollution" has always been my favorite Cliff bassline. ACϟDC is a badass band. RIP Bon Scott
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