Why didn't stereo wiring catch on?

[hieronymous]

I'm about to jump back into the Ric O' thing. My concept is a clean rig with a normal blend of both pickups, and a custom built tube amp with a guitar-ish cab for just the bridge pickup, with slide bass as the primary focus.

Is it possible to use both the Ric-O-Sound jack and the mono jack at the same time? I always assumed the Ric-O-Sound jack would deactivate the mono jack, but never tried it - you crazy!

 

[Passinwind]

Is it possible to use both the Ric-O-Sound jack and the mono jack at the same time? I always assumed the Ric-O-Sound jack would deactivate the mono jack, but never tried it - you crazy!

The bass I'm doing this with isn't a Ric, it was custom built for me and it has a 4 PIN XLR output. I built a buffer for the dedicated bridge pickup output so it won't load down the normal blended output. I'll probably run the bridge pup output into a volume pedal and do clean/dirty blending that way. Now I just have to build the tube amp. Or preferably a pair.

And yeah, of course I'll own being crazy...why be normal?

 

[Jeff Scott]

Is it possible to use both the Ric-O-Sound jack and the mono jack at the same time? I always assumed the Ric-O-Sound jack would deactivate the mono jack, but never tried it - you crazy!

No, because the mono jack has a shorting switch built-in to it that ties the two pickups together when using the mono out.

 

[Wasnex]

OK, but please, n.b., "Leaving aside..." in my post.

Any thoughts about my questions concerning left/right separation?

I tried separating the amps back when I ran Ric-O-Sound and I preferred the vertical stack. When you separate the speakers you get destructive phase interference (comb filtering). Also the 4001 in particular has the HPF (tone cap) on the bridge pickup so it will have significantly less lows. Also if you do any sort of pickup blending you don't want the two signals panned left and right, or changing the blend will cause the image of the bass to shift in the mix. Panning Ric-O-Sound L/R for a recording might be fine, but I don't recommend it for live work. It's fine for recording because panning will be adjusted as needed.

I don't consider Ric-O-Sound an effect. Basically you are just changing when, where, and how you combine your signal. Usually the signal is combined early, in the bass, electrically. Ric-O-Sound delays the conversion so that it occurs in your speakers, acoustically. This isolate the pickups so they don't load each other down and gives you the ability to EQ each pickup to taste instead of using a global EQ. I don't consider it a panacea, but you can get some cool sounds. I can also be cool for people who like to muti-amp with one amp driven to distortion and one amp clean.

 

[Jim Carr]

...most acoustic instruments are not necessarily strictly mono point sources, and upright bass and acoustic guitar with their sometimes substantial back surface radiation and/or damping effects are two good examples of that IMO and IME. Or sax, where...

True dat, but when heard from a typical listener's position, other reflections might easily be more significant, especially if we are talking about an acoustic ensemble. See, above, "are essentially mono."

My original question above is really about the use of the term "stereo," from stereophonic, .i.e., a spatial separation of two speakers, each reproducing the original sound from differently situated microphones.

That "stereo" would seem to NOT have any real application to electric bass, which is what made its usage in the thread title obscure.

Two or more channels for processing or EQ, have at it. Creating a spatial representation? Well, have at that, too. I get the former. The latter seems pointless. I'll just go practice now, LOL.

 

[Wasnex]

True dat, but when heard from a typical listener's position, other reflections might easily be more significant, especially if we are talking about an acoustic ensemble. See, above, "are essentially mono."

My original question above is really about the use of the term "stereo," from stereophonic, .i.e., a spatial separation of two speakers, each reproducing the original sound from differently situated microphones.

That "stereo" would seem to NOT have any real application to electric bass, which is what made its usage in the thread title obscure.

Two or more channels for processing or EQ, have at it. Creating a spatial representation? Well, have at that, too. I get the former. The latter seems pointless. I'll just go practice now, LOL.

For live work, I think of Ric-O-Sound more as dual mono than stereo. I found it important for the summing of the signal to be done acoustically to get the full benefit. Running the two pickups into a dual channel amp with a mono output did not produce the same gestalt and using two amps (YMMV).

I do think you could use Ric-O-Sound in a recording to recreate a very subtle spatial effect. Sort of like dual tracking acoustic guitar with both large and small diaphragm condensers to get a more complex sound that includes some acoustic space.

IMHO panning the pickups would generally not be worth the effort for live work. The bassist on stage could use Ric-O-Sound but it would most likely be mixed down to mono in the PA. At the very most I would suggest soft panning of the pickups in the mains, with the subs mixed to mono. But the effect is so subtle that I doubt anyone would be able to tell the difference unless it was an extraordinary room and PA.

 

[StatesideRambler]

My original question above is really about the use of the term "stereo," from stereophonic, .i.e., a spatial separation of two speakers, each reproducing the original sound from differently situated microphones.

That "stereo" would seem to NOT have any real application to electric bass, which is what made its usage in the thread title obscure

Yeah, well, words and their denotations and connotations evolve. When I started in electronics, oh so long ago, “stereo” was a fairly new idea and it meant something more distinctive than simply “two channels.” Then there was “damping,” a progressive reduction in the amplitude of an oscillation while “dampening” was the addition of moisture to something. It has taken most of my life but I’ve reconciled my mind to the evolution of language through its misuse although my skin still crawls at “dampening” and “very unique.”

From Lewis Carroll:
"When I use a word," Humpty Dumpty said, in rather a scornful tone, "it means just what I choose it to mean—neither more nor less."
"The question is," said Alice, "whether you can make words mean so many different things."
"The question is," said Humpty Dumpty, "which is to be master—that's all."

 

[Jefenator]

Damn...
You guys are making me want to try this.
Anyone got a Rickenbacker, an SVT w/ fridge cab and a Fender Twin I can borrow?

 

[Wasnex]

Damn...
You guys are making me want to try this.
Anyone got a Rickenbacker, an SVT w/ fridge cab and a Fender Twin I can borrow?

I don't recommend doing with stock Fender speakers. I had a blackface 85W twin running JBL E120s, and it didn't have any trouble handling the bridge pickup, but pretty sure it would be easy to blow the stock speakers with bass.

 

[La Faro]

I'd of thought that if you wanted to take advantage of dual mono as a stereo process in a mix, you'd treat the neck pick up as a a centred bass tone, and apply stereo effects such as reverb, stereo chorus, delay etc. to the bridge pickup.

Bridge right, Neck left seems an odd idea as far creating a stable mix, or replicate the listener having its ear where you fingers are.

As for acoustic instruments being stereo, then really any horizontal instrument is, as sound radiates differently from one end than another. The head of my flute as a vastly different tone than the foot. But as a listener sits back it becomes more mono. Same for a guitar, but for guitar it can be useful to split a dual microphone recording for mixing.

Instruments as wide as a piano really benefit from a stereo treatment, and need it to sound natural.

 

[Passinwind]

That "stereo" would seem to NOT have any real application to electric bass, which is what made its usage in the thread title obscure.

Two or more channels for processing or EQ, have at it. Creating a spatial representation? Well, have at that, too. I get the former. The latter seems pointless. I'll just go practice now, LOL.

Vive la difference. Your last sentence made me smile though, because for me the number one advantage of going stereo is that it makes practice exponentially more fun. I haven't taken my stereo rig out to a gig in several years now, but if I ever revive my bass and drums act (literally, not the genre), I most defintely still would. There are a lot of ways to get it wrong though, IMO and IME.

 

[Jim Carr]

Damn...
You guys are making me want to try this...

I've got two ART tube channel strips, a Prolite 3.0, and a pair of inverted baffle 15/6/1 fEARfuls. Oh wait, I don't have a "multichannel" bass. If I did, I guess I'd still wonder what I should "hear in my head," LOL.