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Why do effect pedals cost so much?

#42
Spencer! said:
If boutique builders charged a standard shop rate for their labor, pedals would be MUCH more expensive.
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THIS.

don't know if it was even an honest question, but how do you connect making a living off selling something for $20 after accounting for parts costs, shipping, etc. not to mention all of the labor that goes into design, art, marketing, etc. etc. etc. etc... ? (at the small builder level, not necessarily talking about large companies)
 
#43
M Sterling said:
troll-web-150x150.jpg
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This
 
#45
Boutique builders who genuinely enjoy their work and who put some real personality into the look and sound of their product deserve all the praise in the world. Be thankful you live in 2011 and can go crazy over the work of some random builder.

These aren't soulless electronics!
 
#46
Assuming the OP's profile is correct, I'd say this is much less a case of trolling and more due to the fact that he's 14.

The problem is that looking at something only in terms of raw component cost will never tell the full story of that product's cost.

After all, wine is just grape juice and yeast in a glass bottle with a cork. I can get those components for $2 or $3. So why did I buy two bottles of a $40 Sangiovese last weekend?

Well, other than being slightly drunk after an afternoon of tastings, it's because a lot more goes into costs than raw components.
 
#47
kaputsport said:
There is a lot more in there than you are seeing. Take out the board, and look at the other side. Tons of specifically designed components in the right order to create an effect, wired to pots to allow manipulation of the effect.

I suggest going to BYOC (build your own clone) and ordering the "confidence booster" pedal. It is a simple boost circuit. When you are done assembling it, tell me if you would sell it for $20.
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Wow, thanks for mentioning BYOC, of which I had not heard of.
I used to help my dad build ham radios and TV's from kits he'd buy from Heathkit way back in the late '60's through the mid '70's, and think I'm going to look into getting a pedal kit to try out.
:)
 
#48
I'd be impressed if any individual could build a one-off decent pedal for only $20. Unless you buy in large quantities and just have a bunch on-hand, the components and hardware really add up. Factor that in with the amount of time you have to spend designing, soldering, testing, painting, assembling, marketing, and selling a pedal, you would lose money charging only $20.
 
#49
FunkMetalBass said:
I'd be impressed if any individual could build a one-off decent pedal for only $20. Unless you buy in large quantities and just have a bunch on-hand, the components and hardware really add up. Factor that in with the amount of time you have to spend designing, soldering, testing, painting, assembling, marketing, and selling a pedal, you would lose money charging only $20.
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I am building a Wooly Mammoth clone (name not yet figured out) and I am going to be $40 in with just components, but it'll be worth saving $300 from the original unit. Fact is, if I had a stock of all the parts in bulk, I could probably pump them out for $20 and that would be cost.

Simple fact is, while parts are cheap (and you can get pots and caps, resistors and op amps for far less than the prices listed in this thread, just ask Spencer) it takes tons of time, R&D, sweat, trial and error and time to make something from nothing. Someone post that video of the pedal being build from start to finish. Hand soldered, 2 hours into one pedal...
 
#53
Jared Lash said:
Yeah, I posted that earlier in this thread. I own a B3K and thought it was worth its price tag the day it arrived. Watching that video just makes me appreciate it that much more.
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Thanks guys for sharing the video! Actually the idea of why we decided to film was to show not just the passion and love behind building every pedal, but also how much hard work it takes.

And building them once you have a nice design is the easy part... getting to that point, not so easy. Actually designing the B3K took me more than a year working full time, so yes, it is hard work!

Like someone said, i haven't heard of many guys in our business getting rich, and those who have made it big, for sure are not in the boutique line.

Like the guy from Source Audio said, the business end of it, is very challenging and requires a great deal of resources... there's a whole world of things to take care of behind every single pedal... I personally do it because I love creating things, specially when they can be of value to others (this applies for both pedals and a company).

I liked this thread! I personally didn't get offended at all, quite the opposite, I think is interesting for everyone to share a bit of what happens behind the gear.

Regards!

-Doug.
 
#56
Juan Count said:
Despite not wanting to dignify your question with a response... I have to because you've really pissed me off...

Show me what pedals you've designed and then we'll talk...

+1... Idiots... have the internet too... :rollno:
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I'm sorry man, I'm just 14. I don't know that much about music and equipment yet. I'm not some cheap old man that just doesn't want to pay 150 bucks for something, I'm just asking why it's worth so much. I didn't mean to make you mad, I'm just a kid...
 
#57
Jools4001 said:
Maybe, but how much did the robots cost?

It's simple economics. If anyone from a one-man outfit through to a multi-national corporate has an idea to sell an effects pedal here is what they have to do.

First they've got to do some market research to find out whether anybody will actually buy this thing when they're done. A one man outfit might just ask around a bit, a multi-national may employ a team of market researchers. Either way, it takes time and money. Even for a one-man operation, he can't do any other work while asking around to see if the idea will fly, so it's still costing him money. The wonder pedal is still an idea at this stage so you can't sell it to pay for this market research - all you can do is jot down how much you've spent and promise to pay yourself back once the wonder pedal is flying off the shelves.

Then you've got to design it, build a prototype to see if it works, test it, shake the bugs out so that all the units you sell stay with satisfied customers and don't come flying back as returns (which will mean all of your outlay is wasted). Again, it takes time and money, the only difference between a one-man outfit and multinational is how long it takes and the number of people you need to work on it. Oh yes, and remember, however big you are, you and any other people you employ to do this have to eat while you're doing all this...so you'll have to use your savings to pay yourself (or your investment capital to pay all of your workers if you're one of the big guys) while all this is happening. Oh yes, and you'll need to make sure that there is a suitable place to work, that it's heated and that it's got light and power, oh...and you might need the tools to develop it with, anything from a laptop to a network of computer workstations with the appropriate software...all of this needs to be paid for. But...you haven't sold anything yet, so all you can do is jot down how much this is all costing and promise to pay yourself back when the pedal is flying off the shelves.

Then you need to start building them, so you have to spend time sourcing all the components, and buying in all the components, and the tools you'll need to produce them efficiently (ouch, those robots are real expensive to buy and program aren't they), then you've got to find a big enough space to start production and do all the production engineering you need to do to make sure that these things can be built efficiently and safely, and put in the quality control to make sure that they're going to be reliable and good value for money. A one man outfit might have to put aside some workshop space, a multinational might need to negotiate production space somewhere in China.

At the same time you're doing this, you've got to get busy taking pictures of the end product, drawing up spec sheets and adverts, getting busy on the webpage...and all this production engineering and marketing and advertising takes time and money. But....you haven't sold any units yet, so all you can do is jot down how much and promise to pay yourself back when the units are flying off the shelves.

The day finally arives when you've got enough units to sell. The one man guy finds he's got to put gas in the car to schlep them down to the local mom and pop music store, and he's then got to run around persuading enough mom and pop stores to sell them (or spend time getting busy selling them on-line). The multinational has to have a team of salespeople and admin staff selling them into GC or wherever. So all this takes time and money and you've still got to eat, and all the multinational's people still have to be paid (not just their salaries either, all their pension funds and contributions to healthcare and the amount of money that it costs to provide and maintain the real estate they need to work in, even the gas and phone bills that your sales guys use up). But...you still haven't sold anything yet so all you can do is jot down....

Then you've got all your orders and you've got to pay postage to mail them out, or if you're a multinational, you've got to pay for a huge ship to fetch container loads of them from China and a fleet of trucks to distribute them to where they need to be, and of course all the transport companies want their cut (even Joe who's helping our one man outfit wants a few dollars, a few beers for his gas and his time).

But hurrah...you've finally got your product on the shelves. But you still haven't sold any so all you can do....

OK, so lets count up how much this has cost us so far. Wow! It's taken 6 months from start to finish and it's cost a lot more than we thought. Being sensible about this we need to make sure that we're going to make more money out of this venture than we would have done if we'd just put all this money into a savings account, sat back with our feet up and watched the interest accumulate...oh yes and allowing for inflation this same amount of money money was worth a few percentage points more 6 month ago than it is now so we'll need to allow for that (not so important for our one-man guy, but significant for the multinational who've spent millions so far).

Oh dang, the Mom and Pop store want their cut too... oh well, stick another 50% on. Back in multinational land the GC buyers are screwing your margins to the floor so that they can discount heavily so you'r only making pennies per unit..

Now, let's take all that money, everyones slice of the pie, add it all up and add everyones profit percentage and that is the money you've got to get back from your wonder product. How many are you going to sell Millions? and Hundred? Ok so lets take the money we've invested and divide it buy the number of units we're selling...Oh wow! That's a whole lot more than $20....who would have thought it for a metal box built by robots
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Colin_Powell.jpg
 
#59
tldr on the post above :P

I went through and ordered all the parts for a fun DIY project. original pedal cost: $60 (ebay). parts alone: $45. parts with shipping: $60.

obvi i paid more for the board because tonepad designed and companies can bring down the price with bulk to be sure, but in many cases, especially w used prices, you really are buying nothing but the metal that are used to make it.

if the pedal has an expensive pot or a custom casing, the prices go up. more knobs = more pots
 
#60
rob_thebassman said:
you get what you pay for, buy cheap pedals you get crappy electronics and plastic housing, buy expensive pedals you get good quality stuff and can last years
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This is not always so, but manufacturing technique, material choice/ components and quality control are essential issue that will effect the price, no shortcuts. So there is a limit for how cheep a product can be made without reducing it's quality. On the other had really expensive product are not always guarantied to have better quality.
 

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