Why do I even bother?

[Spikeh]

For the record, what I meant by "in between" was that I am in between the excited amateur and the seasoned pro. I am getting paid to play once or twice a week these days, and slowly getting better gigs. I know my goals musically and professionally, and they revolve around becoming one of these old seasoned pros. The advice I have gotten on here has been very helpful in getting that direction.

Ahhhh... right, sorry

 

[Howard K]

I think there may be some clashes between people who see playing bass as a career and those who see it as a hobby, and that that comes from the nature of the subject.

Yeah, cause those of us who only play music as a hobby aren't anywhere near as dedicated and don't love music as much as those who play professionally

You could argue that a person who works Monday to Friday, then commits their spare time to the study, practice, rehearsal, performance and appreciation of music is giving a bigger part of their lives, because they have less available time for music?

It's six of one, half a dozen of the other if you ask me. If you saw my schedule for the past twelve months I doubt you'd question my commitment to music, if anything you might say I needed to let up a bit! I'm sure loads of us hobbiests and/or part-timers on TB are the same!

The distinction between pro and amateur is completely irrelevant when it comes to how much music matters to a person and how much of their lives they dedicate to playing.

Just my 2ps worth of course ..now I must be off, I need to meet my girlfriend and daughter to go a shopping, cook dinner, then squeeze in a bit of practice and some grade theory questions before bedtime

 

[Low E Louie]

Yes you are right and I did not really think my post through. My main point was that there are not so many hard facts in music and therefore it is possible to fake it in an internet forum.

 

[JimmyM]

Sorry if this is a tad bit off topic.

however, i wanted to thank you JimmyM. I come to these forums alot, and ive been a member here for a little over a year now, and my post count is very small and minimal. Mostly, because i recognize that there are people on these forums that i can learn so much from, and i try to learn from every experience that i encounter in life. I come to these forums and i just read.. for hours i can sit here and just read all the posts made by people, and take in all the advice offered to others.

Thanks Fanatic! But really, I'm not looking for any pats on the back or anything...it just bothered me that people would ask for advice, they'd get advice, then they'd make up every excuse in the world not to follow that advice. But after this thread, I've decided that if they don't want to follow the good advice by the people in the know (and there's lots on here who know more than me, that's for sure), then so be it.

But thanks...glad to know you get a little something out of it!

 

[lowphatbass]

Yeah, cause those of us who only play music as a hobby aren't anywhere near as dedicated and don't love music as much as those who play professionally

You could argue that a person who works Monday to Friday, then commits their spare time to the study, practice, rehearsal, performance and appreciation of music is giving a bigger part of their lives, because they have less available time for music?

It's six of one, half a dozen of the other if you ask me. If you saw my schedule for the past twelve months I doubt you'd question my commitment to music, if anything you might say I needed to let up a bit! I'm sure loads of us hobbiests and/or part-timers on TB are the same!

The distinction between pro and amateur is completely irrelevant when it comes to how much music matters to a person and how much of their lives they dedicate to playing.

Just my 2ps worth of course ..now I must be off, I need to meet my girlfriend and daughter to go a shopping, cook dinner, then squeeze in a bit of practice and some grade theory questions before bedtime

I fully agree that many part time players care just as much about the music and their craft as many full time players. In some cases part time musicians actually care more about "the music" because they can afford to play what they want to play, not what others want to hear, or what others want them to play, but there is a difference, and it's a big one. Players that depend music to live and eat can often not afford to lose a gigs. A recent post by Adrian Garcia really knocks this one over the fence for me.
The topic was fretless basses, lined or un-lined. Adrian told of how he chose to bring a "higher quality" unlined fretless to an audition as apposed to a less expensive lined fretless. He was told afterward that he would have gotten the gig had is intonation been a bit better. The gig was one of those "set for a long time" gigs that pays easily enough to live on by itself, and is scheduled so far in advance that he could've "cherry picked" other gigs and sessions here and there, purely for creative reasons, or to supliment his income. In the professional scene(I use this term loosely, as I believe anyone who gets paid to play is more or less, a professional in some sense)the margin for error is much smaller and competition is much higher. If someone like Adrian moved to my town he could pretty much have any and every gig he wanted.
It's important to understand that some players who post here are coming with a different outlook and are able to provide different information. Why it may not be relevant to all of our situations, it is still great advise, especially for those who may have their sights set on playing and performing at a higher level.

 

[groove100]

Attitude towards your craft, music, fellow musician and in life.
Attitude is the main ingredient in everything.

I love music, bass, and Im a Jazz Major
So i have to play as if my life depends on it.

Attitude was the first that i really learned from my mom, (who was a professional bass player)when I was a kid

And from there, the results where really good. Not always perfect but striving to be better everyday.

 

[el_Kabong]

I cannot understand this for the life of me. If all you want is reinforcement of your bad habits, then why do you even ask?

Thing is Jimmy most people aren't really good at anything (me included). Bad habits and poor attitudes have a lot to with why.

 

[Sippy]

Yea for the record I would like to say that those who ask questions, then shut their ears are giving themselves a HUGE disadvantage. I've only been here for a month, and thanks to a few of the TB members, I have gotten a lot more comfortable with the bass, and have grown to love talkbass.com so much I come here multiple times a day. JimmyM and BurningSkies, are the two that pop into my head. So just for those who shut their ears try to actually listen up. There is SO much to learn from guys on here. If I find somebody very informative i'll search their screename and read their posts and gather all the info I can. Forums are like a constantly written book.

 

[PilbaraBass]

Jimmy, I understand where your coming from...but do not be discouraged...you will meet all kinds wherever you go

there are those who are passionate and work at it and there are those that desire the instant results

I don't always agree with you, but I do respect your viewpoints and your experiences.

I think that talkbass is entertaining, enjoyable, and informative for sure.

sure you get a lot of bones with the meat...that's the nature of people...but this is hands-down THE BEST BASS FORUM IN THE WORLD! and I'm so glad I found it.

Thanks to everyone here...yes, EVERYONE

 

[bos_mindwarp]

I learned fairly early about the fact that being famous and being good doesn't have to go hand in hand... once upon the time we had this band in highschool, and we thought we'd go on and record our demo tape. The guitar player has been sweating around this particular solo for days, and we regarded him as good enough.

So in we went, it was a small time cheap studio run by this grizzled "old dude" that nobody knew anything about. After all the tracks were recorded, that being the 80's and our music being inspired with various sorts of metal, someone thought it would be nice if we recorded another track of guitar solo on top of the original one.

So our guitar player sits down and wants to play it in terce (or however you spell it), and he starts calculating and trying to memorize it. After about 10 minutes of watching him sweating, the dude that runs the studio gets bored, goes off and comes back with Gibson Les Paul, and records it in single shot.

We shut up, packed our gear, thanked and payed the guy and left dumbfounded... Was pretty funny actually.


My point being, he wasnt famous at all, but damn he was good

 

[Brad Johnson]

Mr. Wrong, we ALL started playing to get chicks. Show me someone who started playing for any other reason and I'll show you a liar, a chick, or a gay guy who started playing to pick up guys. But I discovered that the better I played, the more chicks I got

This will probably seem argumentative but you've probably just highlighted one of the reasons you get the responses you hate so much.

I started playing cornet at around 10 years old because a great-uncle had died and left it to me. When I used to sit on a doghouse Snoopy-style and play Xmas songs in the middle of July, I didn't do it for the chicks. Music has always fascinated me and it still does. When I switched to bass guitar, it was because it spoke to me. Maybe the majority of musicians did pick up the instrument with the hope of scoring but I guarantee that some didn't.

People who know me certainly wouldn't mistake me for a chick, I never had problems with girls before I started playing an instrument and according to last month's internet poll (hosted by Jeff Gannon) I'm still not gay. Maybe I'm lying.


Or maybe a slightly more open mind is in order. Everyone doesn't have the same goals, being judgmental based on assumptions is probably counterproductive. Just a thought.

And as has already been mentioned, the people who want advice will take it. I often think what I might be doing now if I had this resource back in the mid 70's. Who knows?

 

[JimmyM]

Bah...greater players than us freely admit to starting playing to pick up girls. Those who always were able to get girls did it to get more. Those of us who couldn't pick up a girl with a forklift did it so they (we) could get a few. And yes, even cornet players figured out that they could play cool jazz music or Chicago songs on trumpet and pick up girls. Obviously people who play music and stick with it did it for higher-purpose reasons than getting laid. But you can't tell me it never crossed your mind.

And had this joint been around in the 70's, I probably would have realized a lot sooner that making it as a rock star had nothing to do with talent and everything to do with how much money you have to pay off programming consultants and DJ's, and it would have saved me a lot of time and effort.

 

[JimmyM]

As a deformed and insecure person, I resent you insinuating that I'm shallow.

Who said I spent hours on end woodshedding and rehearsing with sweaty guys? Even in my earliest days, I was out gigging nearly as much as I was rehearsing. Plus neighborhood girls would always come around to check out where that band sound they heard was coming from, so it wasn't like they were never around.

Hey, you want to pretend that you had a higher purpose, that's quite alright. But it doesn't make you any less of a musician, nor does it make you any less of a well-rounded person, to admit that you got into music for the chicks.

 

[Howard K]

I fully agree... ...especially for those who may have their sights set on playing and performing at a higher level.

A good point, well made - I agree entirely. There is often a huge difference between the skill and consistancy of performance of a pro and an amateur. I play in two of my covers/functions bands with full-time pros and I am very aware of how damned good they are.. and how far I have to go to get anywhere near that standard.

So, yes, agreed, advice from pros is different and in many cases has greater validity because they guys are out there doing the sessions we see on the TV and hear on the radio.

My point was really that you cant measure dedication to music through someone being a hobbiest or a pro. I wasnt in anyway suggesting that 'anyone can turn pro'

 

[JimmyM]

Maiden covers, huh? Wow, you really weren't in it to pick up chicks! I stand corrected!

 

[Spikeh]

Why are you so negative, sarcastic and pessimistic Jimmy? Lighten up man... you're making me depressed! Bad home life?!

Can you not just believe that some people just like to make music, rather than are in it to get laid?!

 

[Joe Nerve]

I thought this post was interesting. Didn't read all the responses. I've been here a while now, I consider myself fairly experienced, I've landed my share of decent gigs - yet I never experienced this board the way you do. I think it may be because I don't take people's arguments personally, or I'm not looking for disagreement. I'm sure people have argued my points, but I think that's healthy - and I also think it's a good idea for me to stay open minded. I personally don't believe there are any hard and fast rules to any art (and I consider bass playing an art), and while you say that you think humility is important this post makes me wonder. People are going to take what they want from here - and experience, great gigs, and great chops doesn't necessarily mean that what's worked for one bass player real well is going to work for the next guy. One person's goal might be to outshine Jaco, while another's might be to become the baddest, sickest punk rocker since Sid.

Just my $.03. And if you ever have to give up your gig with Bowser, can I have it?

 

[Howard K]

I started playing music/bass because all my mates wanted to play guitar and they always handed me the bass. I was happy with that cause I preferred the sound of bass.

I've never had any trouble getting chicks. Dont get me wrong, I've hardly been beating them off with a ****ty stick or anything, but I certainly didn't need to get in a band to get laid.

On the other hand, I dont claim to have always felt some higher purpose when it comes to playing music, "I just wanna get into it man, you know".

 

[cowsgomoo]

so the Technique forum has become about techniques to pick up women cool!

I don't think guys get into music solely to make themselves more attractive to women, but knowing that it has potential to do that, really doesn't put many of us off... being a musician can say a number of attractive things to women (incorrectly or otherwise): that there are deeper levels to you than your average joe, that you have confidence, it's also a great form of 'social proof'... being up on stage, getting attention & admiration from other people is an attractive thing to women...

you know when you dangle something in front of a cat and it becomes transfixed by it and reaches out to paw it, no matter what it is....? well if you get up on stage and exude confidence, a lot of women are like that cat... they can't help being at least a little bit interested...

the idea that only drunken idiotic women would be interested in musicians isn't strictly true, just that they're sometimes the most visible ones... it's amazing how much power you have when you step off stage... women that would be stand-offish and 'assume the role of the prize' if you were just another guy in the crowd approaching her, often drop their 'bitch shields' right down...

of course, you can do any number of things at this point to sabotage the attraction at this point, like talk to her and stuff

 

[JimmyM]

I thought this post was interesting. Didn't read all the responses. I've been here a while now, I consider myself fairly experienced, I've landed my share of decent gigs - yet I never experienced this board the way you do. I think it may be because I don't take people's arguments personally, or I'm not looking for disagreement. I'm sure people have argued my points, but I think that's healthy - and I also think it's a good idea for me to stay open minded. I personally don't believe there are any hard and fast rules to any art (and I consider bass playing an art), and while you say that you think humility is important this post makes me wonder. People are going to take what they want from here - and experience, great gigs, and great chops doesn't necessarily mean that what's worked for one bass player real well is going to work for the next guy. One person's goal might be to outshine Jaco, while another's might be to become the baddest, sickest punk rocker since Sid.

You make some good points, Joe. I just wish the ones who wanted to be a punk rocker like Sid didn't get all up in the "outshine Jaco" threads. Then again, in the punk rock threads there's plenty of "outshine Jaco" folks who participate by putting the rolling eyes smiley in there and saying something insulting about their level of musicianship, so I guess everyone's even

Just my $.03. And if you ever have to give up your gig with Bowser, can I have it?

LOL...sure, if you can read well and you like having to play so quietly that you can stick your head up to your amp and not be able to hear it. Those are the only two requirements.