Why do I even bother?

[mike sancho]

What the wanderer said, word for word.
Great Post!

 

[Brad Johnson]

Bah...greater players than us freely admit to starting playing to pick up girls. Those who always were able to get girls did it to get more. Those of us who couldn't pick up a girl with a forklift did it so they (we) could get a few. And yes, even cornet players figured out that they could play cool jazz music or Chicago songs on trumpet and pick up girls. Obviously people who play music and stick with it did it for higher-purpose reasons than getting laid. But you can't tell me it never crossed your mind.

And had this joint been around in the 70's, I probably would have realized a lot sooner that making it as a rock star had nothing to do with talent and everything to do with how much money you have to pay off programming consultants and DJ's, and it would have saved me a lot of time and effort.

Other people have passed through TB with the gift of knowing what's on everyone's minds. Let's hope you fare better than they did.



BTW just as with most things in life this doesn't have to be about extremes, like a choice between wanting to pick up girls vs. devoting your life to music in a monastic fashion.

I know why I did what I did and a debate about it with someone other than me (who was actaully there) is silly.

So let's go

 

[Brad Johnson]

so the Technique forum has become about techniques to pick up women cool!

I don't think guys get into music solely to make themselves more attractive to women, but knowing that it has potential to do that, really doesn't put many of us off... being a musician can say a number of attractive things to women (incorrectly or otherwise): that there are deeper levels to you than your average joe, that you have confidence, it's also a great form of 'social proof'... being up on stage, getting attention & admiration from other people is an attractive thing to women...

you know when you dangle something in front of a cat and it becomes transfixed by it and reaches out to paw it, no matter what it is....? well if you get up on stage and exude confidence, a lot of women are like that cat... they can't help being at least a little bit interested...

the idea that only drunken idiotic women would be interested in musicians isn't strictly true, just that they're sometimes the most visible ones... it's amazing how much power you have when you step off stage... women that would be stand-offish and 'assume the role of the prize' if you were just another guy in the crowd approaching her, often drop their 'bitch shields' right down...

of course, you can do any number of things at this point to sabotage the attraction at this point, like talk to her and stuff

I don't doubt that some people do get into music for those very reasons. OTOH the idea that EVERYONE did is just ignorant.

 

[JimmyM]

You know, I originally said that bit about musicians getting into it for the chicks as a goof, and I was amazed that people took it so seriously that I thought I would go ahead and defend it as a deadly serious comment and see how angry people got. I was not disappointed!

The ability to laugh at yourself is a gift. Some of you folks take yourselves a little too seriously. Maybe you should have gotten into music for the chicks. Might have made you less uptight. Brad, I'm especially disappointed in you. I would have thought with all your experience with AGB would have made you a little less serious about yourself.

I sentence you all to say something self-deprecating about youselves.

 

[Low E Louie]

Yeah well, the same thing could be said about you for starting this thread.

 

[JMX]

Well, then I'm really wondering why you got so worked up about the "SA vs. raking" thread.....

 

[Spikeh]

You know, I originally said that bit about musicians getting into it for the chicks as a goof, and I was amazed that people took it so seriously that I thought I would go ahead and defend it as a deadly serious comment and see how angry people got. I was not disappointed!

The ability to laugh at yourself is a gift. Some of you folks take yourselves a little too seriously. Maybe you should have gotten into music for the chicks. Might have made you less uptight. Brad, I'm especially disappointed in you. I would have thought with all your experience with AGB would have made you a little less serious about yourself.

I sentence you all to say something self-deprecating about youselves.

At the end of the day - if you express a view on these (or any other) forums, regardless of what it is, people are going to debate and discuss it. There was no suggestion, anywhere, that it might be a joke... if it was even remotely obvious, someone would have picked up on it.

It seems you've suddenly decided to proclaim it as a 'joke that we didn't get' because the original point you were trying to make was in fact a silly thing to say that you didn't think through. Puerile if you ask me. But then again, I could be very wrong, and I just might not be on your wave length.

And for the record, I laugh at myself every single day with my friends and collegues - I am the brunt of many jokes, because I allow people to make them, it's what makes me, me... and a very happy me I might add.

 

[JimmyM]

Thunk.

 

[JimmyM]

It seems you've suddenly decided to proclaim it as a 'joke that we didn't get' because the original point you were trying to make was in fact a silly thing to say that you didn't think through. Puerile if you ask me. But then again, I could be very wrong, and I just might not be on your wave length.

Oh, you think?

Puerile...there's a good 10 cent word. Well, you think whatever you want. But you are now off my Christmas card list.

JMX, what got me worked up about that thread is the ease that rakers dismissed claims that SA will clean up sloppy playing while people who actually tried it made great strides in cleaning up their playing. Yeah, I got a little tense about it, but only because after 3 or 4 good testimonials about SA working, you'd think people wouldn't dismiss it like we were making it up. But then I realized that the more people dismiss it, that just means there will be less competition in the marketplace that I have to worry about, so now I'm completely cool with it.

Low-End Louie, I have nothing for you. Sorry.

 

[Low E Louie]

That's alright. Rock on.

 

[Brad Johnson]

You know, I originally said that bit about musicians getting into it for the chicks as a goof, and I was amazed that people took it so seriously that I thought I would go ahead and defend it as a deadly serious comment and see how angry people got. I was not disappointed!

The ability to laugh at yourself is a gift. Some of you folks take yourselves a little too seriously. Maybe you should have gotten into music for the chicks. Might have made you less uptight. Brad, I'm especially disappointed in you. I would have thought with all your experience with AGB would have made you a little less serious about yourself.

I sentence you all to say something self-deprecating about youselves.

I thought you said it as a goof initially. I put up a counterpoint as nothing more than that.. a counterpoint. There wasn't anything overly serious about what I said and if you think I'm angry, that's on you, not me. Guess you missed the smiley face in my post. I know people are small-minded enough to think they know everyone's motivations. I didn't have to learn that at AGB.

So how mad am I now?



Here's the really funny part...

It's seems you've already forgotten the thrust of THIS thread, that YOU started, to BITCH about people not accepting your wisdom. Still want to talk uptight?

Why are you so serious about that? Remember this, it seems like only a couple of pages ago?

"I sit here today completely frustrated and bewildered".

Sucks to be you . I'm neither of those and wouldn't let an internet forum make me feel that way.

I know from AGB that you have a knack for taking a good point and obscuring it under a load of crap and feigned indignation. Just like in this thread.

Ha ha.


Just read the actual words, no need to let your mind take them in the direction that'll irritate you.

 

[Brad Johnson]

At the end of the day - if you express a view on these (or any other) forums, regardless of what it is, people are going to debate and discuss it. There was no suggestion, anywhere, that it might be a joke... if it was even remotely obvious, someone would have picked up on it.

It seems you've suddenly decided to proclaim it as a 'joke that we didn't get' because the original point you were trying to make was in fact a silly thing to say that you didn't think through. Puerile if you ask me. But then again, I could be very wrong, and I just might not be on your wave length.

And for the record, I laugh at myself every single day with my friends and collegues - I am the brunt of many jokes, because I allow people to make them, it's what makes me, me... and a very happy me I might add.

Yes, that does sound accurate. And now I'm even angrier.

 

[Brad Johnson]

Oh, you think?

Puerile...there's a good 10 cent word. Well, you think whatever you want. But you are now off my Christmas card list.

JMX, what got me worked up about that thread is the ease that rakers dismissed claims that SA will clean up sloppy playing while people who actually tried it made great strides in cleaning up their playing. Yeah, I got a little tense about it, but only because after 3 or 4 good testimonials about SA working, you'd think people wouldn't dismiss it like we were making it up. But then I realized that the more people dismiss it, that just means there will be less competition in the marketplace that I have to worry about, so now I'm completely cool with it.

Low-End Louie, I have nothing for you. Sorry.

Did you really consider the people who disagreed potential competition for you? That's serious.

As far as testimonials, I've heard dozens about Amway over the years...

 

[Bryan R. Tyler]

JMX, what got me worked up about that thread is the ease that rakers dismissed claims that SA will clean up sloppy playing while people who actually tried it made great strides in cleaning up their playing. Yeah, I got a little tense about it, but only because after 3 or 4 good testimonials about SA working, you'd think people wouldn't dismiss it like we were making it up. But then I realized that the more people dismiss it, that just means there will be less competition in the marketplace that I have to worry about, so now I'm completely cool with it.

The people who dismissed your comments about SA improving your playing did no more dismissing than you did when people told you that you could make great strides in your playing by taking the time to improve your raking, as it's obviously not as good as it could be if you can't do it with anywhere near the speed or clarity of your SA. You seem to think that your way is the right way, and you become completely frustrated when people don't take it for gospel (all those wonderfully helpful "thunks" you enjoy adding), yet you freely refuse information from other people (remember the whole "pickups won't change your sound" fiasco?).

You're expecting more from other people than you are willing to give yourself.

 

[burntgorilla]

I find this forum inspiring, more than anything. I've been playing almost two years, I like to think I've gotten pretty good in that time, though mostly in technique, I'm dismal at writing music. But when you see people here, who've been playing thirty years or whatever, it's almost comforting. I often worry that I don't play enough, but then I realise I have my whole life to play the bass. Sometimes people say things on here I don't understand, usually when it comes to the more emotional side of playing music. In an area where five years is considered a long time to be playing an instrument, it's inspiring to think that in ten years, or whatever, I might feel the same way as some people on here do. Well, you could say that I should feel it already, but that's open to debate.

So, um, thanks, not just for answering whatever technique or theory questions I have. I think that sometimes the older folk on here do more for us newer ones than they realise.

 

[Spikeh]

Yes, that does sound accurate. And now I'm even angrier.

I'm fuming

Seriously... I'm glad it's not just me that picked up on the ever-so-obvious joke

 

[skewh]

Jimmy,

My best advice to you is to ignore as best you can the ignorance/insolence of the posters which irk you so. If they still feel the need to question you despite your credentials, than they're the ones who are missing out on some grade "A" advice.

All the best,
Dave

 

[JimmyM]

The people who dismissed your comments about SA improving your playing did no more dismissing than you did when people told you that you could make great strides in your playing by taking the time to improve your raking, as it's obviously not as good as it could be if you can't do it with anywhere near the speed or clarity of your SA. You seem to think that your way is the right way, and you become completely frustrated when people don't take it for gospel (all those wonderfully helpful "thunks" you enjoy adding), yet you freely refuse information from other people (remember the whole "pickups won't change your sound" fiasco?).

You're expecting more from other people than you are willing to give yourself.

Bah...if I thought raking would help my playing I would do it. Instead, I recognized it as the completely imperfect method it is once I saw how much better I was when I quit doing it. Good raking is as dependent on luck as it is on skill, and if you can show me otherwise, I will work really hard at getting better at it. So far nobody has been able to do it, including you. However, I have proven significantly that SA is more accurate and makes riffs that people struggled with while raking much easier once they get the hang of it. All you rakers can say is "It's a valid method because I saw Jaco do it." Well sorry, but that ain't good enough for me. Jaco did a lot of stuff that only Jaco could do because he was Jaco and you're not. Plus Dave LaRue is a world class bassist with far more chops and feeling in his playing than anyone I've ever known, and he is the reason I don't rake anymore. So you tell me, who should I listen to? Dave, or a bunch of guys on Talkbass who haven't even tried to play without raking?

As for the pickup "fiasco," I came to the conclusion that other people were hearing differences that I wasn't hearing, so I conceded that it might be a problem with my hearing. But I guess you missed that part, or chose to ignore it so you could make some grand point here.

So your whole argument against me is without merit. But thank you for playing...we have some lovely parting gifts for you, including the Talkbass home game.

Bryan, in all seriousness, though, I went on your website and checked out some of your paintings, and I must say that they are absolutely awesome. Truly wonderful work. And as I'm lucky if I can draw stick figures, I wouldn't question one thing you told me about art and how to get better at it because I know you're much better at it than I am. And not to brag, but I have been playing bass for 30 years, I have studied with one of the best bassists in history, and I do a lot of high profile work doing some pretty intense reading with some of the top oldies acts of the 50's, 60's and 70's. So you will have to forgive me if I think I know what I'm talking about. Apparently other people think I do enough to hire me.

However, Brad, I do have to apologize to you. You have shown in the past that you do have a good sense of humor, and I shouldn't have said you didn't.

 

[Howard K]

How can you honestly say that 'a technique' is bad? Tools for the tool box surely? We are talking about making music here aren't we? If people didnt do things differently it'd be pretty damned boring, would it not?

EDIT: best not bother.

 

[Bryan R. Tyler]

Bah...if I thought raking would help my playing I would do it. Instead, I recognized it as the completely imperfect method it is once I saw how much better I was when I quit doing it. Good raking is as dependent on luck as it is on skill, and if you can show me otherwise, I will work really hard at getting better at it. So far nobody has been able to do it, including you. However, I have proven significantly that SA is more accurate and makes riffs that people struggled with while raking much easier once they get the hang of it. All you rakers can say is "It's a valid method because I saw Jaco do it." Well sorry, but that ain't good enough for me. Jaco did a lot of stuff that only Jaco could do because he was Jaco and you're not. Plus Dave LaRue is a world class bassist with far more chops and feeling in his playing than anyone I've ever known, and he is the reason I don't rake anymore. So you tell me, who should I listen to? Dave, or a bunch of guys on Talkbass who haven't even tried to play without raking?

Jimmy, my point isn't whether you choose to rake or SA- I'm trying to point out to you if you're honestly frustrated that when you say "So you tell me, who should I listen to? Dave, or a bunch of guys on Talkbass who haven't even tried to play without raking?", it works the same the other way. You know you, and you know what works best for you. But to everyone else, you (and me, and everyone else) are just a bunch of guys on TalkBass. To them, they could just as easily say "So you tell me, who should I listen to? Jaco, or a bunch of guys on Talkbass who haven't even tried to get good at raking?". It's all

People aren't going to see things the way you do, that's all. They're not wrong for it, and what works best for them may simply be something completely different than what works for you. It's nothing to get frustrated over. You have a very strong opinion on what you think raking is. That's fine. But don't think of it like it's a fact. It may be a fact to you, but enough people have evidenced it in a different fashion than you to make your fact a falsity. You've got a lot of great experience and a lot to teach, but your experience isn't going to be the same for everyone else. Edgar Meyer was probably told by his instructors that if he ever wanted to get good and serious about his bowing, he'd need a much better one more suitable for the kind of music he wanted to play. But here he is today with his cheap (relatively) bow and bowing better than many of the top guys out there (I even prefer him to Gary Karr).

And as bassplayers, we probably all know you're not going to get hired whether your opinion is that you should always SA or rake. Most non-bassist don't know the difference, and really don't care about anything except if you can show up on time, read, and keep time (and anyone who's gone to any blues night knows that you can rake and keep great time).

Just don't let experience close your mind to how different things work better for different people.


Oh, and thanks for checking out my work. That's my main thing.