Why do live drums sound like crap?

[Cteam]

Everytime I go to a local show around here, the drums sound like crap. It sounds like the kick pedal is hitting a cardboard box and the cymbal is a pie plate. Here is an example from one of our local bands (play the "Meet Virginia" song in link below). They are actually pretty good, but the drum sounds are pretty typical of what I hear. Is this due to crappy kits, or room acoustics? What's the solution? edrums?

https://www.reverbnation.com/playlist/view_playlist/-4?page_object=artist_2883470

 

[Lesfunk]

All of the above. I think live drums sound great, but they have to be tuned, played and mixed properly. If one of those is off the drum sound can be affected in a bad way

 

[D. Gallis]

Can't help you but man those drums ewwww

 

[jimfist]

sh!t in, sh!t out, as the saying goes. If you play with a drummer who knows how to make drums sound good in a room by themselves - even in a rock/hard rock context - then they'll sound good amplified, assuming the sound tech and PA system reinforce the drum sound properly and don't f*ck things up (for example, noise gating the piss out of everything...I HATE THAT!).

 

[powmetalbassist]

Really depends on the drummer and the drum set in combination. We had a drummer who didn't think he had to tune his drums (could play, but on his/an untuned kit sounded like poopie). Now we have a guy great drummer, knows his stuff and tunes the DW practice kit, sounds way better,

 

[Real Soon]

A lot of these indie rock cats think that's the "authentic" sound. Needless to say, they're wrong.

 

[SanDiegoHarry]

Everytime I go to a local show around here, the drums sound like crap. It sounds like the kick pedal is hitting a cardboard box and the cymbal is a pie plate. Here is an example from one of our local bands (play the "Meet Virginia" song in link below). They are actually pretty good, but the drum sounds are pretty typical of what I hear. Is this due to crappy kits, or room acoustics? What's the solution? edrums?

https://www.reverbnation.com/playlist/view_playlist/-4?page_object=artist_2883470

A few things leap to mind...

1) Correctly mic'ing drums is the hardest thing for a sound man to do. It is very easily done incorrectly.
2) THAT is how drums sound. What you are expecting is a result of modern post production techniques. Real drums sound like real drums.

 

[Kustom250]

....and the cymbal is a pie plate.

Often the result of the recording. They probably didn't sound like that in the room.

 

[callofcthulhu]

Just be grateful you can hear the kick at all.

 

[29A]

NO! Electronic drums are *not* the solution! Haha

There is a mix/room issue going on with this recording, but it's live, so not too unusual ... It sounds like they were trying to get away with just a kick mic and overheads to capture the whole kit from above, so the kit elements are kind of getting blurred together.

I think his kit has the potential to sound pretty good in a studio just the way it is. Not my preferred tuning, but not bad either.

If I was going to nitpick his sound to make it how I tune my drums (I'm a drummer 1st, bass/guitar player a distant 2nd but gaining rapidly), I'd take the mattresses out of that bass drum and tune it for a tighter sound. There's just so much more tone and control you can get from an unmuffled (or barely muffled) kick, and without getting too boomy. Think Bonham. Before anyone flames me for heresy on that, I'll point out that it was a recording engineer who turned me on to unmuffled kicks about 5 years ago and I've been doing it ever since both live and in the studio and it sounds great.

Also, his snare isn't quite tuned tight enough, especially on the snare-side, so it has that kind of soggy, deadened "thwack" sound. Tighten up the reso a bit higher than the batter and bring 'em both up about an octave to dial it in nice warm "crack" without getting harsh as overly-cranked snares tend to get.

His cymbals are simply too loud in the mix, which is a bummer cos they don't sound terrible if taken in isolation.

All this to say that tuning is primarily responsible for a drum sound. I'd say at least 90% of the way drums sound is in how the heads are tuned (assuming they're still capable of being tuned), and if, or how much, they're dampened.

It's not nearly as much about whether the drums are some cheapo early-'80s Taiwanese stencil set, or a shiny new high end maple DW kit as people (including drummers!) tend to think.

Cymbals, on the other hand ... you get what you get, and you can't tune or dial them in, which is why so many drummers obsess over them and spend thousands on vintage Zildjian Ks from the '50s.

But even if his kit were tuned to my preferences, they probably still wouldn't have sounded pleasing on that recording given the room, mic placement, and mixing. Might have sounded great in person, though.

Drums are such a PITA to record well.

 

[jd-ns]

Live drums don't have to sound like crap but there is a long list of things that can make them sound like crap. Same goes for bass, guitar, vocals, etc.

Acoustic drums have pros/cons, E-drums have pros/cons. Neither is better.

 

[29A]

A few things leap to mind...

1) Correctly mic'ing drums is the hardest thing for a sound man to do. It is very easily done incorrectly.
2) THAT is how drums sound. What you are expecting is a result of modern post production techniques. Real drums sound like real drums.

sh!t in, sh!t out, as the saying goes. If you play with a drummer who knows how to make drums sound good in a room by themselves - even in a rock/hard rock context - then they'll sound good amplified, assuming the sound tech and PA system reinforce the drum sound properly and don't f*ck things up (for example, noise gating the piss out of everything...I HATE THAT!).

Yep.

Separate post to point out one other key point that should be obvious, but apparently isn't: Drums are purely acoustic and they are loud.

Apart from apathy and ignorance, the biggest reason for drums sounding like heinously dead cardboard boxes is usually the result of someone telling them their drums are too loud, so they stuff a mattress into the kick and unload a pallet of duct tape on the heads & cymbals. This is the cheap and dirty way to control volume - in addition to putting the drummer in a straight-jacket.

If you want to enjoy all the rich timbre-y goodness that practically all drums will generate, you have to allow (require!) the drummer to tune them properly and hit them with enough force to get them to speak.

So if you're the type of musician forever complaining that drums are too loud, then either wear earplugs and decline that dinner gig, or admit that you don't care how good your band sounds and you're only in it for the money.

Oh, and get used to those drum tones on your recordings - cos that's IS what they actually sound like.

That is all.

 

[Slough Feg Bass]

all about tuning and sticks I think.

I am not the greatest drummer by any means, but I keep getting good calls because I keep my heads fresh and tune them often.
I also have a variety of stick styles, and that really changes things lot sometimes. Just using a heavier/lighter stick can totally change the tune.

I played in a kinda funky bluesy band for a while, on recommendation from an engineer friend, and we sounded great together I thought.
They started getting more gigs, wanted to practice and stuff, and my schedule just couldn't accommodate it, so we agreed they'd be better off finding someone else.

Couple months later, I went to go see them play, and the drums sounded terrible. guy had a decent kit, but was using old warped heads and sticks that were way to heavy for what they were doing.

I talked to the bass player buddy, and he was very up front about how they really see my value when I am not around.

So weird, I get more drum calls because I play quietly and don't do many fills or crazy beats.
It is difficult though, to play drums quietly but with attitude.

 

[Robroy]

Just be grateful you can hear the kick at all.

In most of the bands I'm in we will at least mic the kick drums but rarely mic anything else.

 

[jimfist]

It is worth its weight in gold to find a drummer who plays deep in the pocket, doesn't over play, and has a naturally great sounding kit. They are as valuable a commodity as quality lead singers who don't have a God complex.

 

[Carl Hillman]

they stuff a mattress into the kick and unload a pallet of duct tape on the heads & cymbals. .

^^This^^
A drum is supposed to ring and have a tone. Obviously, you don't want uncontrolled ring, but putting the best mic in the world on a dead drum won't make it sound good.

There are, surprisingly in this age of instant access to information, a lot of drummers out there who don't know how to tune a drum.

 

[Geekydad]

For perfect sound, the drummer should be sealed in a large plexiglass box.
Putting the drum set in there with them is optional.

Seriously- speaking as a former drummer, I wish someone had told me how to tune my set properly. I remember duct tape on the cymbals, and taking the front head off the kick and tossing a pillow in to try and keep it from ringing so much.

 

[FatBoutedGirls]

That kit was poorly mic'd, poorly tuned, poorly played, and poorly mixed in the example.

 

[twoByFour]

...So weird, I get more drum calls because I play quietly and don't do many fills or crazy beats...

Saw this on the interwebs once, still cracks me up:

 

[radioface]

Nothing wrong with the sound of live drums, live drummers are another story. Some drummers are great and others, should never leave their cellars/garages.