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Why do so many players love flats?
- Thread starter RVRSCO
- Start date
On paper I should be a rounds guy. Post-punk with a pick.
When I A/B at home rounds seem like a better sound for the music I play.
But Chromes have a cutting top end and assertive low mids that have more presence than rounds.
Recordings and in the rehearsal room.
Maybe someday I'll find a reason to switch back but for now I'll do the counterintuitive thing.
When I A/B at home rounds seem like a better sound for the music I play.
But Chromes have a cutting top end and assertive low mids that have more presence than rounds.
Recordings and in the rehearsal room.
Maybe someday I'll find a reason to switch back but for now I'll do the counterintuitive thing.
If someone is playing in a wide variety of genre it's hard for me to understand why they wouldn't play both.
String tension to me has always meant the fight in the string that I feel with my right hand.*
As an aggressive player of a similar plucking style but not limited to Rocco, Geddy, and others like that, I need a string to fight back. I always came back to Roto 66s after trying many though not all, including arguably better quality, strings.
For most of my decades playing it’s been roundwounds-only, and my main basses still have those Rotos.
But I really like the sound and feel and thump factor of flats, and I want to play more with those basses of mine with flats.
*I am now thinking that my concept of tension might be wrong. Or, incomplete. Of course it relates to both left and right hand effect, but probably more equally than I previously considered, not sure if others feel the same.
I am thinking that rounds are more flexible when fretting than their flats counterparts of similar gauge, and maybe to get the same fretting pressure effect I may need to consider a lighter gauge flatwounds. But, I don’t really like too light gauge strings, and don't want to lose the fight in the right hand.
After taking one of my flats basses out at a jam, and really struggling after the second or even first song, I am thinking the tension is more a factor of the fretting and not the plucking.
My right hand was fine, but my left/fretting hand was totally fatigued after a couple songs, and it doesn’t get that way when playing at home. There was just too much effort to fret the strings compared with rounds. This was on a 2012 P Bass Standard that comes stock with a Jazz 1.5" width neck that is not overly thick front to back.
Previous to this I went from the Jamerson gauge La Bellas to the 760 FL gauge, but this was still not enough. Prior to that I had tried Fender flats, Roto flats, and one other I can’t recall, but like the feel of the La Bella 760 FLs the best. It could be that I need to try different strings.
Afterwards I lowered the action to reduce the left hand effort, but I feel that is only going to be partially successful.
As an aggressive player of a similar plucking style but not limited to Rocco, Geddy, and others like that, I need a string to fight back. I always came back to Roto 66s after trying many though not all, including arguably better quality, strings.
For most of my decades playing it’s been roundwounds-only, and my main basses still have those Rotos.
But I really like the sound and feel and thump factor of flats, and I want to play more with those basses of mine with flats.
*I am now thinking that my concept of tension might be wrong. Or, incomplete. Of course it relates to both left and right hand effect, but probably more equally than I previously considered, not sure if others feel the same.
I am thinking that rounds are more flexible when fretting than their flats counterparts of similar gauge, and maybe to get the same fretting pressure effect I may need to consider a lighter gauge flatwounds. But, I don’t really like too light gauge strings, and don't want to lose the fight in the right hand.
After taking one of my flats basses out at a jam, and really struggling after the second or even first song, I am thinking the tension is more a factor of the fretting and not the plucking.
My right hand was fine, but my left/fretting hand was totally fatigued after a couple songs, and it doesn’t get that way when playing at home. There was just too much effort to fret the strings compared with rounds. This was on a 2012 P Bass Standard that comes stock with a Jazz 1.5" width neck that is not overly thick front to back.
Previous to this I went from the Jamerson gauge La Bellas to the 760 FL gauge, but this was still not enough. Prior to that I had tried Fender flats, Roto flats, and one other I can’t recall, but like the feel of the La Bella 760 FLs the best. It could be that I need to try different strings.
Afterwards I lowered the action to reduce the left hand effort, but I feel that is only going to be partially successful.
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"So many people playing flats"? Seriously? It's been many years since I picked up someone else's bass with flats on it and it belonged to a woman concerned with roughing up her delicate fingers. I fail to understand how so few people use compression wound strings. Great sound, easy on the fingerboard and quiet.
I tried flats throughout the years, I've been playing over 40, and never made the connection and always went back to my rounds. It wasn't until I tried a set of Tomastik Enfeld Jazz flats that I saw the light and made the change. I have them on 3 basses now and will swear by them until the day I die. I know, hard to believe but they are spectacular strings. Other flats, not so much.
If you want flats and like your Rotos, try a set of Rotosound Jazz Bass 77. They're flats with a bright tone, yet manage to have some thump after they're broken in a bit.
If you want a heavier gauge, go for the Steve Harris signature set.
The thing about flats, particularly in the studio, is that they're quiet when you move your hand up and down the neck. And because they don't have the range of overtones present in rounds, they produce a more focused sound, meaning they'll sit better in a live or studio mix.
Hope that helps! Rock on...
If you want a heavier gauge, go for the Steve Harris signature set.
The thing about flats, particularly in the studio, is that they're quiet when you move your hand up and down the neck. And because they don't have the range of overtones present in rounds, they produce a more focused sound, meaning they'll sit better in a live or studio mix.
Hope that helps! Rock on...
Thanks, and while I've been using flats for years, experimenting with various makes including Roto flats like I mentioned above, what I like about roundwound Rotos is the feel and fight, and the tone and fight from the La Bellas is perfect, it's just that I found in a live setting (rehearsal was fine) the fretting fatigue was a lot more than expected, other than that I really like them.
I've resisted TIs (it's Thomastik-Infeld with an "I") for years because despite there being so many sworn fans of them the one thing I keep hearing about them is that they are a softer string and so I ruled them out - that, plus the cost make them a bit unrealistic for pure experimentation given they are 2 times the cost of La Bellas. It would not be the first time I bought new strings, flats or rounds, played them once and took them off and restrung with the prior ones.
But, after that fatigue I experienced live in the middle of a set, despite their famous softness I've decided to give TIs a shot. After I do I will report back.
Lots of people play flats for various reasons, just as others play rounds for different reasons. EBCFs just sound snd feel right to me when I play. I slide a good bit; flats definitely work well for that.
Flats, almost exclusively. Why? Several reasons...
1. I learned to play bass on a friend's lefty '68 Rick 4001 - in 1968. It wore it's factory Maxima Flats, and I was in love with the sound - and feel. In all the years since? I can count the number of basses I've played - for more than a few minutes - with round wounds on them, on one hand. Not counting my thumb...
2. The overwhelming majority of the songs I played in a band, or now play just for fun, were originally recorded and played live on basses with flats - or on an upright bass. I can't play an upright - aside from a bum shoulder, left handed upright basses are scarce - and very expensive. But, an electric bass guitar with flats? I own a bunch of those, and with some of them? I can fake an upright bass well enough to suit me...
3. Growing up in places where you can easily freeze to death in the winter (ever stood outside when it's -63F? You won't stand there long), and spending 24 years in the military doing fun stuff out in the cold, I've hand my toes, fingers, ears and nose frostbitten - a lot. Fingers that have been treated like that, are very unhappy when you run them up and down round wound bass strings. To me, it feels like I'm running them up and down a wood rasp. Which, not being much of a masochist, I won't do for very long... Flat wounds, on the other hand? Much, much nicer...
Out of the 26 basses that I own currently, 24 of them wear flats of one brand or other; one wears Roto TruBass88 Tapewounds; and one wears TI Jazz Rounds. If the MIK Rogue VB-100 violin bass would tune up - and, actually intonate - with any other strings I've tried? Well, it might wear those - if they sounded better than the Roto 88's do on that bass. I doubt very much that they would, though... As for the TIJRs? In 12 years of trying to find strings for my Gretsch Broadkaster that made it sound like an actual bass, and not like a hippo fart in deep mud - or a baritone guitar? They're the only strings that will do the job. Fortunately for my fingers, those strings feel much more like flats than they do rounds, so... I can live with them. So, bottom line?
If you don't like flats? That's OK with me; lots of people don't. And, I can think of lots of reasons - perfectly valid reasons - why they don't, too. But, those reasons don't apply to me...
I love flats on my Music Man Stingray, I have tried all kinds of strings on it but I finally set on Labellas 760FS-TB .. they just sounded right when tried them and they keep getting better as time goes by.
My other basses have rounds, but yes I love flats on the Stingray
My other basses have rounds, but yes I love flats on the Stingray
However 'in the studio' the eventual tone is EQed by the mixing engineer in consultation with the producer and/or band/artist.
My interpretation of 'focus' is more relating to mids and highs, than the lows which are more to me the 'body' component.
You can EQ up or down all sorts of mids and highs that you may or may not want, but you can't EQ in stuff that isn't there to start with (aural exciters notwithstanding).
You can only do so much in the mix (though you can do more today if you use digital). You're always better off getting the best sound you can when recording.
I like Rotosound 77 flats on my Lakland Decade . Their character fits on the bass perfectly and I can play any genre of music I wish with them . My Fender Precision is strung up with Rotosound 66 stainless round wounds .
Interesting, I have those same La Bella flats I mentioned earlier in this thread on my Decade, and coincidentally I was playing it today for the first time in weeks. I never tried the 77s on it though.
I started on flats when I was a kid, switched to Rotosounds for years and went back to flats on some basses for some years. I now pretty much only use Rotosounds, if I want a flat wound-like sound I either palm mute with a pick or use rolled up pieces of soft flannel when I finger pluck. They sound like flats with more mids with mutes which I really like. I like the feel and sound of Rotos much better than flats. I don't like all brands of round wounds and don't like all flats, in fact I pretty much only like Rotos for round wounds and La Bella DTB for flats.
I hear you - and sympathize, but... if you really want to play flats? There are low tension flats that might make you smile. The ones I know about/ have experience with:
1. Thomastik-Infeld Jazz Flats. Among the most expensive flats out there, but the fact that they'll last you a decade (or two) sorta takes the sting out of their initial price. 143 lbs. of pull-to-pitch tension plus their construction, makes TIJRs very flexible and easy to play. Without major changes to my technique, I can't play them with a pick, but I don't use one on the bass that wears TIJFs (Alembic Epic) anyway...
2. La Bella Deep Talkin' Flexible Flats. Actually less actual tension than the TIs at 136 lbs., DTFF's are designed to feel more like most flats. But, they are still... pretty flexible. They "thump" pretty well, too.
3. Optima 4440 RB ("Rickenbacker Bass") Flats. These are designed to duplicate the German Maxima Flats that used to come on Ricks up until the early 1980s. I learned to play bass on a Rick 4001 that wore them; as I recall, they were not very stiff at all, and their low tension was the reason Rick didn't want you to replace them. Optima absorbed Maxima quite a while ago, but never threw the specs away. The RBs are pretty much clones - very nice ones, too. I have them on my Rick 4003 - and love them...
4. Some other flats that I'd consider "not all that stiff" would be Fender 9050Ls; Galli JF4505 Jazz Flats; Optima 4099RL Chromes; and Dogal R44s. Dogal also makes "CarbonSteel" Flats, which - according to their packaging - take only 5kg per string to pull to pitch - which works out to a whopping 44lbs. of tension for a 4 string set. I'm... skeptical; but I have a set of them to try on my 4001 Rick, which needs strings with as little tension as possible. Still working up the nerve to try them; mainly because I'll be royally PO'd if I go through the grief that changing strings on a Rick engenders - for strings that don't work. But, if they don't? I have a set of TIJRs and La Bella DTFF's just in case; I know they'll work...
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