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Why do some progressive bands sound so dated?

LOL. "Chikki wah wah" sound of 70's guitar. Yes, that sounds dated and has for a while. But it still sounds good on the hit songs that originated it, whether Chuck Mangione or the Bee Gees. When I listen to an oldie hit I can get into a different frame of mind to enjoy it.
 
i think it was Yes's Jon Anderson that said that in the 70's their concern was all about music and in the 80's it was all about making money.

Ask him the same question again a week later.

I don't know if RUSH is considered prog rock or not, but I always liked their 80's work the best. I don't think they were following money but just adapting to new sounds. I considered a healthy musical attitude.
 
I was, and still am, a huge prog rock fan. Some of it just traveled better, like any musical genre. There was some bloated excess, Topographic Oceans by Yes a prime example. I was a Rabid Yes fan, and still can’t sit through that one. Radio is built around 2-3 minute songs, so was MTV at its Music video height, most prog rick didn’t fit that format, so it didn’t get played. The emphasis on ferocious chops and experimentation came off as as elitist to some, the punk movement at least partly a reaction to that. The simple truth is, everything gets dated, including everything on the radio now, which sounds like juvenile pap to me, because I’m dated too.
 
Ask him the same question again a week later.

I don't know if RUSH is considered prog rock or not, but I always liked their 80's work the best. I don't think they were following money but just adapting to new sounds. I considered a healthy musical attitude.
Rush are considered prog, more so in the 70s, and their changing sounds is the definition of prog to me, YMMV. I became a fan in the 80s when I first started playing bass, and at that time I was into new wave MTV-ish stuff, so the keyboard heavy stuff was up my alley. But for their existing "prog fans", it wasnt all that well received.
 
I was, and still am, a huge prog rock fan. Some of it just traveled better, like any musical genre. There was some bloated excess, Topographic Oceans by Yes a prime example. I was a Rabid Yes fan, and still can’t sit through that one. Radio is built around 2-3 minute songs, so was MTV at its Music video height, most prog rick didn’t fit that format, so it didn’t get played. The emphasis on ferocious chops and experimentation came off as as elitist to some, the punk movement at least partly a reaction to that. The simple truth is, everything gets dated, including everything on the radio now, which sounds like juvenile pap to me, because I’m dated too.

Pink Floyd, in the early days, was on the cusp between psychedelia and prog, and I wouldn't really place waters or Barrett in the ferocious chops camp.
 
I've mentioned this elsewhere on TB, but to my ear the thing that makes post-1990 prog significantly and conspicuously different from -- and less charming/more bombastic than -- "original" 1970s-era prog, is that the entire 1980s hair-metal thing intervened. Every so-called "prog" band that's made a dent on the music industry radar since the 1990s has some element of "shred" and "headbanging" going on in their sound that, in the worst cases, lends a (as you say) cartoonishness to their exploits. And even in the best cases makes it fairly easy to timestamp the repertoire.

Surely the ultimate in cartoonishness is Jethro Tull in 76.
 
This thread has been fun. I'm surprised the word "pretentious" hasn't been used. Anyone remember Aphrodite's child or Magma? I quite enjoyed Genesis - and played bass in a genesis cover band for a while in the early 80s - but Yes always left me cold. I had a taste for the hippie stuff - like Gong and the excellent Hawkwind, which wasn't really prog, but most prog rock is thankfully buried. It followed Sturgeon's law.

Prog rock was primarily a European thing, and American music was more fun. Girls could dance to it.

There were certainly some North American bands that were associated with the movement, such as Mahavishnu Orchestra (International, but based in the USA), Rush, and a lot of pretty proggy stuff by a number of other bands, even if not explicitly to be pigeonholed as prog. And I'm not convinced anyone was dancing to much of Jaco's 70s output.
 
Fast forwarding to the present, I just saw Steven Wilson in concert. If you like the legacy prog, you really need to do yourself a favor and listen to Steven Wilson and his previous band projects from Porcupine Tree. Its a very updated version of the that music that I lived in the 70s and 80s. I thinks its better, actually. He is a prolific song writer/singer/player/engineer/producer and his material just gets better and better as his career unfolds.
 
Fast forwarding to the present, I just saw Steven Wilson in concert. If you like the legacy prog, you really need to do yourself a favor and listen to Steven Wilson and his previous band projects from Porcupine Tree. Its a very updated version of the that music that I lived in the 70s and 80s. I thinks its better, actually. He is a prolific song writer/singer/player/engineer/producer and his material just gets better and better as his career unfolds.

I wouldn't deny his talent and his prolificitiness (???) but to me he is too derivative... I'd sooner listen to the original prog but then I guess that's because it's what I grew up with. Modern derivatives of 70s stuff - any genre - just doesn't work for me.

My favourite modern prog band, well relatively modern and relatively proggy, is the Osric Tentacles.
 
Fast forwarding to the present, I just saw Steven Wilson in concert. If you like the legacy prog, you really need to do yourself a favor and listen to Steven Wilson and his previous band projects from Porcupine Tree. Its a very updated version of the that music that I lived in the 70s and 80s. I thinks its better, actually. He is a prolific song writer/singer/player/engineer/producer and his material just gets better and better as his career unfolds.
Legacy Prog? What next, New Oldies?;)
 
It sounds dated because it is.

In truth, I think it's really quite rare that something can withstand the test of time. Honestly, many of the things that we think have passed the test actually haven't - we're just living in our own little bubble of nostalgia. That is not to say that many things aren't good - but they certainly aren't timeless.

First thing - "timelessness" really isn't. The groups and songs that were well-known and are still well-known today - outside of some genuinely good musicianship in some cases - it feels as though the popularity is artificial. Music is passed down through generations ("music Y these days is terrible, son - listen to some good old Jimmy Y") or becomes part of a social habit or cultural sphere (hard to find a jukebox or a karaoke bar without hearing Journey) or becomes popular for other reasons ("I saw jam band Z live in concert 7 times, those were the good times man, music isn't what it used to be"). It's not timeless, it's just re-perpetuated. Popular music is marketed to have this appeal, as self-perpetuation is the end goal in that case. It isn't music, it's all rose-tinted glasses and member berries.

Second thing - rock as a genre is dated. I'll get a lot of flak for this, especially here, but dude - we're old. I love Iron Maiden and Yes and Rush, etc, but that's not the world we live in now. I don't think it's so much that some prog rock sounds dated as much as it is that most rock is now dated. It's become classic classic rock. It's a different sound, a different time, with different instruments and techniques; people on Talkbass will always have gigs playing old cover songs, but outside of our bubble music is changing.

Third thing - recording techniques, compression, and instrument mix (before the board). Music can sound dated today if it's not hi-fi, doesn't have today's bass response range, and isn't mastered in a very compressed way (loudness wars). You might be picking up on a little bit of this, albeit subconsciously.

So yes - you're right; if you had grown up with the music, you might have a higher nostalgia factor for it, which would have contributed to you liking the music. I'd say consider yourself lucky for not going through that, as you can discover what you like and don't like without the rose-tinted glasses of days gone past.

We use the term “dated” as a sort of declaration of mediocrity or lack of merit but how can it be? Are we confused about when Beethoven’s music was written? Does it’s era make it redundant? Why do we think that music that belongs to the past is somehow inferior because we notice how old it is?
If only modern music has merit then we are all doomed eventually to be irrelevant.

Speaking as an historian, I think there are some valuable thoughts here. This thread evokes for me the foul cliche of undergrad history papers, that so-and-so was "ahead of their time." There is no such thing as being "ahead of one's time"; everyone lives in one's own time and is shaped by it. What that phrase REALLY means is that the writer finds something about the historical figure that they happen to like or admire, and that the writer is sufficiently ignorant of the figure's time that they can't understand how his time produced him. "People back then were stupid, this guy was smart, therefore this guy was ahead of his time, because he's smart like me!" - not realizing that the assumption of people back then being stupid is not exactly evidence of smarts on your part...

Likewise, dismissing something as "dated" is the flip side of that same presentist coin. "This was made in the past, I don't like it (now, in the present), therefore I dismiss it as relevant only to its own time." To be sure, there are some aspects of life where timeliness is the essence of the pursuit. Fashion, for instance; the whole game of being fashionable is being attuned to what people will admire NOW. You don't want to get caught wearing last year's look, as that means you "lose the game." You can say something similar in music, if you're talking about the popularity of music - you can say that the wave of popularity for 70s prog was specific to its time, and that popular tastes have changed, so that later bands doing similar things (like Spock's Beard or Porcupine Tree) don't reach the same level of popularity as Yes or ELP.

That doesn't amount to much as a critique of the music itself, though. I can understand a record producer not wanting to invest in an act because he doesn't think he can sell it, the music they make is the kind of thing that would have sold thirty years ago but not today. But that doesn't mean it's inferior music. It may still be vivid, expressive, evocative, creative, virtuosic.

And, of course, there's the phenomenon of the classic, the revival, the retro. The present constantly pillages the past for raw material, in every field of activity. When something that had been unfashionable becomes fashionable again, we then decree it "classic" or even "timeless." Of course, it isn't. Such pronouncements have nothing to do with any quality of the thing in question; they are purely statements about ourselves, that we find something about this old thing that we have decided to like. For now.
 
I can still listen to 21st Century Schizoid Man all day long, the title track about once a year, and that's about it.
Jeez,”epitaph” is one of the greatest songs of all time......moodier than Black sabbath, one of the best mellotron recordings ever made,blah blah blah. ;)
I know what you mean about the 2 Wakeman albums,I can’t even listen to JTTCOTE,but there’s still a lot of great moments on 6wives. If you’ve never heard Criminal Record,Side one is especially good,sounds like it came out of jams he did with Chris Squire and Alan White.(who are both on that side of the lp).
 

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