(Why) do Stingrays sound killer in the mix?

[BGroovy]

active and dial up those mids

I love vintage passive basses. When I'm in a busy mix (sax, keyboard, 2 guitars), I grab my active 5er and on my WD800 I dial back the bass, bump up the HPF, and boost 900 and 1200hz on the PEQ

 

[JeezyMcNuggles]

Hi all,
a couple years ago I switched from playing mainly blues and funk to heavier rock stuff and am still experimenting to get the perfect live sound. Recently went from my passiv J to a P which helped a lot.

Still, whenever I hear a recording (mostly studio, some live) and think "wow that is a killer sound", I go and check what basses they are playing. 80% it is a Stingray or similar. Some recent examples are Smooth by Santana and on the heavier side this one with an ATK:

In the heavier rock context I find P basses often blending in instead of cutting through. I really dislike the frizzy highs of Musicmans but hey, in the mix they are so amazing to my ears. Does that translate to live FOH sound or is it a studio sculpting thing? Is it the humbuckers,pickup position or the active electronics?

I had a G&L L2500 a while ago and remember being super happy with that live too.

Happy for any opinion, experience and/or comment

800hz

 

[Jrussblues]

It’s not rocket surgery. Play a p-bass if you want mediocrity or you want to not be heard in a modern mix. Play something else if you think your notes are important

 

[DoctorZee]

Yes, because possibly the biggest factor of which bass will "sit well in the mix" is.....the MIX!

Right! I’m always amazed at how people talk about “THE mix” as if there’s only one.

 

[GreyBeard]

I was playing my old SR5 at a club one night when another bass player I know came up and told me just how great my bass sat in the mix. He said that he could always hear it and it was never too loud. I told him that I had taught my bass everything it knew...lol. As far as a p-bass goes, it can work in a live mix but it takes some EQing. I think it needs some HP filtering and some mid boost so as to separate it from the kick and carve out a pocket for it to exist. I also have a Ibanez ATK805 that can pull off the StingRay vibe as well as several other well known basses.

 

[Chickenwheels]

If it’s good, it’s good.
As to why they sound good in the mix? Depends.

 

[Chickenwheels]

Here’s a Stingray in a mix. Of these there are many!

 

[Geri O]

It’s not rocket surgery. Play a p-bass if you want mediocrity or you want to not be heard in a modern mix. Play something else if you think your notes are important

Dude is making the rounds tonight! "My Message Must Be Foisted on the Entire TB Populace!!"

And quite the quick responder to comments, too!...

Now all that's left to do is wait and watch for the Alert notice to go off....

(Seriously, get over yourself....)

 

[Jrussblues]

Dude is making the rounds tonight! "My Message Must Be Foisted on the Entire TB Populace!!"

And quite the quick responder to comments, too!...

(Seriously, get over yourself....)

I just comment from time to time. I have no malice and I am open to opinions. Ie…caught a great pino example. He is super expressive on a p.

 

[jdjk7]

I just comment from time to time. I have no malice and I am open to opinions. Ie…caught a great pino example. He is super expressive on a p.

I would love to have responded, but the topic was closed.

The issue I see with the "can we just move on" mentality is that we are not talking about something that is purely a craft or a science. There is not much objective superiority to be had here. The sonic result is the priority-- music is both an art and a craft. If the 60-70 year old design is what makes the sound you want to hear, you would be stupid not to use it (assuming it was available to you). If the 60-70 year old design doesn't do what you want, then use whatever sounds the way you do want.

That's totally ignoring that the instrument you use is only part of the sonic equation-- if you record your basses DI with no manipulation whatsoever, then there will be a pretty stark difference between basses. But... after EQ and compression and drive/dirt/fuzz, amps, preamps, cabinets, DSP, all the signal processing that we use both live and in the studio has the ability to really close the gap between how different basses sound.

Personally, I like the Precision Bass. I especially prefer the sound of a pick and slap on a P. I like mids, and I like the aggressive quality that a P bass can have with a fresh set of strings and a firm plucking/picking/slapping hand. If all I had to play for the rest of my life was a well-constructed Precision Bass, I would be happy. Now... if I had other options, would I only still use a P? No. My favorite bass has three pickups, four switches, and two knobs. Needless to say it is more complicated than a P and it has little in common.


To bring this on topic for the thread, I've wanted a Stingray for a while. I'd like a single pickup passive variant, but those don't come up often unless you make one yourself. I was never crazy about the "Stingray sound". I used to borrow a vintage (70s or 80s) Ray from an acquaintance to use at jams, and while it played nicely, I struggled to get a sound that mixed the way I wanted. It also suffered from the infamous weak G string. Its owner did not play the G string enough to really be bothered, but I felt differently.

I had my mind changed when I heard the demo for Tim Commerford's passive model. It just hit different. I've never been big on active preamps. The difference in dynamics is just a little too perceptible to me. So my preferred instrument would be passive.

 

[StayLow]

Killer gonna sound killer.

Source?

 

[JeezyMcNuggles]

It’s not rocket surgery. Play a p-bass if you want mediocrity or you want to not be heard in a modern mix. Play something else if you think your notes are important

Nothing is more heard than a P bass. It stands out strong and full in any situation.

There's a reason it's still the rock God today.

If you want different, if you want to sit around the music, or if you want to sound like a guitar, play something different.

If you want to be heard, play a p bass, and leave it flat.


That said, I play a jazz bass in the band I'm in now. I do so because my P bass is too strong in the mix. No matter what I do to it.

 

[BZadlo]

I heard "Jet Airliner" in the grocery store today and was thinking, "that ray tone is so sick." Not really a typical bright ray tone though.
However, I think it's more about a good mix than a specific bass. It's really nice when instruments aren't sonically stepping on each others toes.

 

[Watchootognbout]

Aw C'mon guys!
Everybody knows that the ONLY bass that sounds great in the mix is a P-bass!
It's repeated thousands of time here.

 

[JimmyM]

Aw C'mon guys!
Everybody knows that the ONLY bass that sounds great in the mix is a P-bass!
It's repeated thousands of time here.

It’s only repeated by folks who don’t like them any time someone dares to be happy with their P basses.

 

[ToddB1963]

I heard "Jet Airliner" in the grocery store today and was thinking, "that ray tone is so sick." Not really a typical bright ray tone though.
However, I think it's more about a good mix than a specific bass. It's really nice when instruments aren't sonically stepping on each others toes.

Sounds like a Precision

 

[andrus108]

I played in a heavier band on Ibanez with passive PJ pickup config, 99% of the time on the P. I found that P pickup straight to output jack, no pots on the way, was VERY clear. Pots usually reduce the treble content and shift the mids downwards the lower the value they are; running passive pickups unloaded so to speak gives them the most clarity and highest mid frequency peak. I suggest installing a switch or a push-pull pot to have P straight out option, and see if you're still only blending in

 

[Watchootognbout]

It’s only repeated by folks who don’t like them any time someone dares to be happy with their P basses.

No.
It's repeated by those that have them.
You know that very well.

 

[Dlew919]

Another One Bites the Dust was a stingray. Always assumed it was a P, but it has a brighter 'thump' doesn’t it?

 

[Deleted member 380707]

Wow, this kinda blew up. Thanks for all the replys. Some more, some less usefull

I think it makes sense to describe my setup a little. I play rounds fingerstyle into an HPF at 60Hz, LPF at 8k into medium compression, into EQ bumping at 200Hz and ~1k Hz while cutting below 100 Hz (our kick sits at 80-90) and a little cut at 3k Hz, into a cab sim DI or cab mic+DI. On top are 2 distorted guitars. So I adjust quite a lot to my bandmates. FOHs are usually happy. Still, for my taste it doesn't have enough presence with fingers on the PAs we usually play (venues with space for 100-300 people). With pick it gets a little better.
I like the carpet of deep drown from a P too. The difference in my ears is with P you have to crank the higher mids to cut while ray can cut with their growly lower mids. How do you P players manage vs. 2 heavy guitars?

Someone suggested stingrays cut through because of the frequencies around 800Hz. Is that true? I talked to sound guys about P basses and they seem to like 200 - 220Hz boost for oomph as well as 900-1000Hz for presence. So would I boost 800 instead of the 1k on a ray?

Finally: Yes I mentioned Santana as sound example. My bad. But keep in mind that the music I am trying to adjust to is more in realms of stoner or modern bluesrock. Two heavy guitars require even more effort to cut through and dont produce a mud fest.

And please keep posting more rock mixes where you like the bass sound!! Its best if we can hear, not only read, what we are talking about

Another one where I like the P "carpet" sound but the pick attack still cuts through:

He does it by bi-amping. Orange AD200MKII for lows, mid-boosted SVT +810 for mids and cut. Not a setup I want to carry but sounds huge for a trio.