Jet Airliner by Steve Miller Band? That's a ray.... ? Nice
There's a live video of Madeline Peyroux playing Don't Wait Too Long where bassist is using a ray 5 IIRC, it sits well in that bluesy jazz mix too
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There's a live video of Madeline Peyroux playing Don't Wait Too Long where bassist is using a ray 5 IIRC, it sits well in that bluesy jazz mix too
One thing that hasn't been mentioned is string choice on a Ray. That pickup is ultra responsive and I've found that choice in strings goes a very long way to emphasize the frequencies one wants to hear.
I like flexible strings to compensate for that rear pickup hand position although I do use that full space between pickup and neck heel to pull different sounds out of the Ray.
My favorites strings thus far have been -
Dunlop super bright 45-105 - If I want emphasis on the upper mids and grind
GHS round core boomers 45-105 - emphasis on the low mids and ballsy punch (these strings are currently blowing me away on the Ray)
For flats, I have found that I really like Labella balanced 43-104. That thuddy fundamental mixes very well with the Ray pickup and sounds killer in the mix with a pick, even with a two guitar heavy rock band. Turn up those mids on the pre and watch out!
I like flexible strings to compensate for that rear pickup hand position although I do use that full space between pickup and neck heel to pull different sounds out of the Ray.
My favorites strings thus far have been -
Dunlop super bright 45-105 - If I want emphasis on the upper mids and grind
GHS round core boomers 45-105 - emphasis on the low mids and ballsy punch (these strings are currently blowing me away on the Ray)
For flats, I have found that I really like Labella balanced 43-104. That thuddy fundamental mixes very well with the Ray pickup and sounds killer in the mix with a pick, even with a two guitar heavy rock band. Turn up those mids on the pre and watch out!
Because a subjective observation was presented as universal truth.How did a thread about Stingrays turn into a “P Bass players feel the need to defend themselves” thread, again? Very compelling content. 
I wanted a Stingray years ago so I bought one in ‘82. It was a very well made instrument but I never fell in love with the sound so it went.
Which is what prompted me to build a passive bass with a Nordstrand MM5.2 pickup in the Precision spot and it goes very well indeed. I installed a series/parallel switch and in series it’s fat and punchy while parallel has a nice clean sound. I like both settings. I’ve gigged with it several times now and it’s becoming my favourite bass. It doesn’t sound like a Stingray at all.
Wow, this kinda blew up. Thanks for all the replys. Some more, some less usefull
I think it makes sense to describe my setup a little. I play rounds fingerstyle into an HPF at 60Hz, LPF at 8k into medium compression, into EQ bumping at 200Hz and ~1k Hz while cutting below 100 Hz (our kick sits at 80-90) and a little cut at 3k Hz, into a cab sim DI or cab mic+DI. On top are 2 distorted guitars. So I adjust quite a lot to my bandmates. FOHs are usually happy. Still, for my taste it doesn't have enough presence with fingers on the PAs we usually play (venues with space for 100-300 people). With pick it gets a little better.
I like the carpet of deep drown from a P too. The difference in my ears is with P you have to crank the higher mids to cut while ray can cut with their growly lower mids. How do you P players manage vs. 2 heavy guitars?
Someone suggested stingrays cut through because of the frequencies around 800Hz. Is that true? I talked to sound guys about P basses and they seem to like 200 - 220Hz boost for oomph as well as 900-1000Hz for presence. So would I boost 800 instead of the 1k on a ray?
Finally: Yes I mentioned Santana as sound example. My bad. But keep in mind that the music I am trying to adjust to is more in realms of stoner or modern bluesrock. Two heavy guitars require even more effort to cut through and dont produce a mud fest.
And please keep posting more rock mixes where you like the bass sound!! Its best if we can hear, not only read, what we are talking about
Another one where I like the P "carpet" sound but the pick attack still cuts through:
He does it by bi-amping. Orange AD200MKII for lows, mid-boosted SVT +810 for mids and cut. Not a setup I want to carry but sounds huge for a trio.
Speaking as a Stingray disbeliever, that recording sounds very nice until he gets up a bit high then it gets into the Stingray sound that I don’t particularly care for. The track is good though and the bass is warm and full.
One of the earliest 'MM live sounds' i heard was Bad Company around 77, then a band called Angel where the bassist switched between a P bass and a MM in 78 and it was distinct and way different.
Probably the one that a MM really stood out was Springsteen on the River tour early 80s.
Its a great and now 'classic sound' but honestly a lot has to do with overall EQ and the player, choice of strings, how they pick...ive heard P basses sound 'very different' with modern amps, cabinets and EQ and of course the player, strings and how they pick.
If i switch between thumb and then a pick at the bridge and adjust the semi parametric EQ on my Eden Metro with a P bass, it sounds totally different and some would not know it was a P bass vs players that thumb anchor in the same position, same EQ.
EQ is everything, as mentioned many times in this thread....sure it would be hard to make a P bass sound like a MM but the P sound CAN vary widely if you are willing to use a semi parametric EQ and vary picking style as i do...im sure at least some would agree, no?
Probably the one that a MM really stood out was Springsteen on the River tour early 80s.
Its a great and now 'classic sound' but honestly a lot has to do with overall EQ and the player, choice of strings, how they pick...ive heard P basses sound 'very different' with modern amps, cabinets and EQ and of course the player, strings and how they pick.
If i switch between thumb and then a pick at the bridge and adjust the semi parametric EQ on my Eden Metro with a P bass, it sounds totally different and some would not know it was a P bass vs players that thumb anchor in the same position, same EQ.
EQ is everything, as mentioned many times in this thread....sure it would be hard to make a P bass sound like a MM but the P sound CAN vary widely if you are willing to use a semi parametric EQ and vary picking style as i do...im sure at least some would agree, no?
Sure why not?
I always get a chuckle out of the P bass vs MM debate as to me they are just basses. I bought the bass I bought because it checked the boxes I was looking for in a bass. Price point. Scale length. Neck shape. Etc. I was not interested in trying to sound like Jamerson or Flea or whoever. I mean come on. It’s a bass. It just goes thud thud. As I said they all kinda sound like crap until they get in the mix.
Point taken, but the difference is...the Precision can take on a variety of tonal characters depending on how it's played. Carol Kaye, Jamerson, Chuck Rainey, Freddie Washington... just to name a few. They all played P basses...they all sounded different. Don't even get me started on Jazz basses, which can be made to sound several different and very distinct ways, to the point you'd think they were completely different instruments if you didn't know any better.
A Stingray tends to sound like a stingray, no matter how it's played. It takes a very skilled bassist playing a Stingray, NOT to sound like he/she is playing a Stingray - kind of counter intuitive I know, because the reason people play them is because they enjoy that tonal character they have courtesy of the pre-amp - but as I alluded to in a previous post, the snarl sounds great in certain styles, but completely out of place in others.
Entirely my opinion of course
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A Stingray tends to sound like a stingray, no matter how it's played. It takes a very skilled bassist playing a Stingray, NOT to sound like he/she is playing a Stingray - kind of counter intuitive I know…
In fact, I can’t think of any other reason to play a Stingray….
.I have a great Precision-style bass and a great Jazz-style bass. But neither of them sounds anything like a Stingray.
So….
I have a Stingray (Special) for that reason.
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In fact, I can’t think of any other reason to play a Stingray….
I have a great Precision-style bass and a great Jazz-style bass. But neither of them sounds anything like a Stingray.
So….
I have a Stingray (Special) for that reason.
Precisely.
And...
So do I... {4H three-band EQ}
Hi all,
a couple years ago I switched from playing mainly blues and funk to heavier rock stuff and am still experimenting to get the perfect live sound. Recently went from my passiv J to a P which helped a lot.
Still, whenever I hear a recording (mostly studio, some live) and think "wow that is a killer sound", I go and check what basses they are playing. 80% it is a Stingray or similar. Some recent examples are Smooth by Santana and on the heavier side this one with an ATK:
In the heavier rock context I find P basses often blending in instead of cutting through. I really dislike the frizzy highs of Musicmans but hey, in the mix they are so amazing to my ears. Does that translate to live FOH sound or is it a studio sculpting thing? Is it the humbuckers,pickup position or the active electronics?
I had a G&L L2500 a while ago and remember being super happy with that live too.
Happy for any opinion, experience and/or comment
Not sure if this has been mentioned, but the example you give in the video is not a Stingray but an Ibanez!
When a bass (any bass) is lost in the mix it’s mostly because of the sound guy. On many big festivals basses get lost in the mix because they put to much (sub) lows in the bass. A P bass is more sensitive to that than a Stingray in general. Has to do with the pickup placement also. But both basses can get lost in the mix if not EQ’ed correctly.
Not sure if this has been mentioned, but the example you give in the video is not a Stingray but an Ibanez!
Yeah, it's an Ibanez ATK, Ibby's take on the Stingray. Whatever was used on the recording has the MM punch, so ain't nobody gonna care.
Sure, it's the sound guy's job to make the band sound good, but it boils down to how difficult you want to make it. In modern rock/metal context, you can play a P with all those pillowy lows you don't need, or something that sounds right out of the box. You then get <1 minute for bass during sound check, and fixing your bass tone isn't going to be the sound guy's #1 priority in a typical multi-band situation, so it's good to send something that works without much tweaking.
Don't take me wrong, I like the way a P sounds, just never found it adequate in a modern rock/metal context without a bridge pickup. Especially so if talking about 5-strings.
I remember when the 1st Ramones album came out, it has Dee Dee in one channel, its mixed differently than modern recordings...Straight up P played with a pick, i hadnt listened to that album in decades but Dee Dees sound was distinct in 1976 which was about the time Sting Rays were hitting the scene, both sounds were distinct to my ears.
Haha a precision is not muddy, it’s simply the most recorded bass tone in the history of music.
