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Why do you dislike OD/dist/fuzz

#61
JimmyM said:
Bass is whatever I or anyone else who plays it thinks it should be at any given time. If I think it should be rhythm, it's rhythm. If I think it should be a lead instrument, it's a lead instrument. But that notwithstanding, this business about us not being guitarists and that's why we shouldn't use distortion...again, tell it to Jamerson. Or McCartney:



Or Entwistle:



Or JPJ:

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Jimmy, maybe I don't understand what "Fuzz" is for me, but every fuzz pedal has been extreme distortion / night and day difference between light natural tube saturation OD as those examples you list tend to be what I would call a vintage tone, back then they didn't go out of their way to stay dirty, it's just how the tone came out with the tech and limitations they worked with (with few exceptions on later Entwistle stuff which I wasn't a huge fan of his tone then anyway).

What I "thought" the OP is asking about, Fuzz, which is this..


 
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#63
gregmon79 said:
I also can't believe that someone said bass has nothing to do with melody and it's only for rhythm. Wow.
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nothing is a bit extreme, sure there are always melodic breakouts and even mini-solos... but in the end, it's a rhythm instrument in the music I like.

no reason to get all wow about it... it's part of the rhythm section for a reason.
 
#64
I have plenty of originals where the bass needed dirt and others a very clean sound was needed. It all depends on the song. I mean if I'm playing jazz standards or classic country/western I don't think there are many (if any) instances where any sort of bass distortion would be needed.
 
#66
I guess now to answer the original question, what I dislike about OD/distortion/fuzz is the extreme versions of them. I typically prefer mild to medium stuff that doesn't destroy the original signal. Anything that robs bass, or makes me blend into the guitars too much is a no no for me. But, with so many options, I just avoid those ones. I want mild compression from dirt, not crushing compression. Dynamics are nice.
 
#67
gregmon79 said:
Well, that's not what was said before...... "Bass Is rhythum not melody". So I'm not taking my wow back ;)
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I edited and put in the words (Primarily)... because like it or not, it is...

ever listen to Duran Duran isolated bass lines? or even our prior referenced Jamerson? not going to find the average person saying "oh.. I know what song that is!"... cause there is little melody and a lot of rhythm in those great lines.
 
#69
SamJ said:
Jimmy, maybe I don't understand what "Fuzz" is for me, but every fuzz pedal has been extreme distortion / night and day difference between light natural tube saturation OD as those examples you list tend to be (with few exceptions on later Entwistle stuff which I hated anyway), and what I'm talking about... and what I "think" the OP is asking about, which is this..


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And this, IMO, sucks. And is not representative of what I'm thinking of what the OP is talking about. This is almost a joke IMO. When I use dirt, it never sounds like this.
 
#70
gregmon79 said:
And this, IMO, sucks. And is not representative of what I'm thinking of what the OP is talking about. This is almost a joke IMO. When I use dirt, it never sounds like this.
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The two "Fuzz" pedals I've ever tried sounded more like that ... I have a spaceman Saturn V that can do a great tube style OD, that is something I can see being used in music I'm into. It is NOT a Fuzz pedal, it's a boost.. which is essentially Over Drive at the top end.

In the end, music is subjective and "subject" to taste... just because I don't like extreme fuzz and lead bass parts, doesn't mean that kid with his metal axe is wrong.... just means I don't like it.
 
#71
FretNoMore said:
I agree it's part of the rhythm section and working closely with the drums/percussion, but the bass is also the bottom and foundation of the chords, and often what's leading the band in chord changes, so to say it's just rhythm is missing a major part of the role it plays in music.
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I am no theory expert, but to my untrained ears.. guitar and keyboards, as well as vocals take on the majority of melody, and bass and drums the rhythm. Again, I'm sure there are exceptions, whether in an entire song, or in parts of a song, absolutes are not something I've found work well in music, since it's so subjective.

Would you call this a rhythmic or melodic bassline just curious? (this guy is my new favorite youtuber btw, love his cover work)

 
#72
ashtray said:
I gotta say - for a LONG time I just didn't "get" overdriven bass. To me it sounded like those songs from the 60's and 70's were just lacking today's modern equipment that can create low frequencies at loud volumes while staying clean.

A clean bass just has a punch to it. Every note can be percussive. Adding overdrive compresses that attack and smooths the notes out. It just wasn't ever for me - in any band I had played in. And for context, I would play keys for some songs and use a Wurlitzer sound that overdrives when hit hard - and I'd play it through guitar speakers for even more lo-fi sound!

BUT - now I get it. I used to consider an overdriven bass just lost in the mix of noise, but I totally see how an overdriven bass can sound good and why you would prefer it to clean. It did take a while for me to wrap my brain around it and if I tried overdrive in a band, I'd probably get my bandmates approval first.

If overdrive is something you can't understand why someone wouldn't ever want, look at drums. Now imagine using a torn bottom skin *on purpose* for each drum - or having the drums mic'd and overdrive added! If that sounds crazy, then welcome to the mind of some bassists who would never consider overdrive. And that said, I think over driven drums could sound just as cool as bass or keys.
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Putting some distortion on a snare track is an old studio trick to get the snare to pop a little more. Not enough that you hear it unless it's soloed, but it's there, adding additional harmonics.
 
#73
SamJ said:
I am no theory expert, but to my untrained ears.. guitar and keyboards, as well as vocals take on the majority of melody, and bass and drums the rhythm. Again, I'm sure there are exceptions, whether in an entire song, or in parts of a song, absolutes are not something I've found work well in music, since it's so subjective.

Would you call this a rhythmic or melodic bassline just curious? (this guy is my new favorite youtuber btw, love his cover work)

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Of course there are elements of both rhythm, chords and melody in bass playing. The ratio between these vary from song to song and from genre to genre. If it was all about rhythm there would be no need for all those strings and frets that let you choose different notes, no? ;)
 
#74
FretNoMore said:
Of course there are elements of both rhythm, chords and melody in bass playing. The ratio between these vary from song to song and from genre to genre. If it was all about rhythm there would be no need for all those strings and frets that let you choose different notes, no? ;)
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no, you're right and I do get that.... you can't just play any note in rhythm, this is why we have chords (but we don't strum them like on a guitar), or scales.. However, you HAVE to hold down the rhythm where as the melodic instruments can weave in and out and layer melody.. they are primarily melody. That's my point, and if I'm wrong, then I'll go back to square one and re-read my theory book.
 
#76
SamJ said:
The two "Fuzz" pedals I've ever tried sounded more like that ... I have a spaceman Saturn V that can do a great tube style OD, that is something I can see being used in music I'm into. It is NOT a Fuzz pedal, it's a boost.. which is essentially Over Drive at the top end.

In the end, music is subjective and "subject" to taste... just because I don't like extreme fuzz and lead bass parts, doesn't mean that kid with his metal axe is wrong.... just means I don't like it.
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Yeah I hear ya. I mean, it's also very subjective when it's just a dude playing a nasally distorted bass alone in his room. It's not a great example. It still sounded like poo to me too.

Like I had said before, it's all about the type of music/genre you're in IMO. There have been known barriers broken through time for sure. Those of us that use dirt a lot, most of us, have worked really hard and spent a lot of time to get a dirty sound that works for us. It's not like I just went out and got a boss metal dist and said yeah man, this is awesome. Ive gone through a lot of dirt pedals to find what works for me and my band. And that was my choice. Why? Because I love dirty bass. And if I found it didn't work for my band, I can honestly say, I wouldn't use dirt. If it's utilized in a smart way, it can really be effective. There's a place for clean, dirty and everything else in between IMO. It's all about the genre/type of music being played.
 
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#77
And as far as the rhythm melody thing, I feel it's all about the player and his/her ear. I've heard some great players use predominantly rhythmic playing. I've also heard players use almost nothing but melodic lines and playing. There's no use debating it, it's so realitive and individual to each player, their playimg level and ear IMO.
 
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#79
A little OD IMO allows the bass to be heard without requiring excessive volume. Clean tone is more likely to start a volume war and result in a boomy vortex at the bottom end. With OD the bass can work with the drums to create thump with more melodic information. Many tracks that sound clean still have that little bit of sizzle that make them sound rich and full. A lot of the clanks and ganks that cause trouble for players are greatly mitigated and can become downright musical when setup, technique, and OD are all working together.
 
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