Why does my geddy lee jazz bass lack so much midrange? (with soundsamples)

[Drienvyftigcent]

PIckup Height?

Are you sure the electronics are the original?

I listened to your sound samples on my IEMs, and the neck pickup sounded really good to me.
The blended setting was also good, but IMO the bridge pickup sounds thin and nasal - and noticeably lower in volume.

While I don't love the soloed bridge tone, it has a lot of mids - so I'd recommend raising the bridge pickup much closer to the strings.
That will balance the output levels, and that should also increase the amount of mids in the blended tone.

Aside from that, I played stainless steel strings for a long time - then switched to nickel a few years ago.
I recently put another set of SS strings on my #1 bass and I really noticed the lack of mids at my gig last night.
Unless you have a nickel allergy or are dead-set on using the Roto Swing 66s, a set of nickel strings would be worth a try.

But raising the bridge pickup is a $0 improvement that the bass needs, regardless.

After you mentioned it I also noticed the bridge pu seemed a bit quiet, so I recorded the riff again with the bridge PU raised. I played the 3 pu combinations with my right hand over the neck pickup (like the original recording), and also with my right hand near the bridge pickup to hear what that sounds like as well. I feel like raising the bridge pu has made the sound a little more edgy but to me it still sounds like it lacks warmth and presence in the mid and upper mids. I might have the capacitors and pots checked out to see if they're fine, if so I'll probably consider either replacing the pickups or selling the bass.

 

[TTA]

There is midrange but the action is too low for my taste too much black which will disappear when played in a band mix. Back the volume off the bridge or neck and the comb filtering will be less and less scooped. Also check the pot values maybe that was changed.

and check each picup alone for scoop and volume

 

[erratick]

After you mentioned it I also noticed the bridge pu seemed a bit quiet, so I recorded the riff again with the bridge PU raised. I played the 3 pu combinations with my right hand over the neck pickup (like the original recording), and also with my right hand near the bridge pickup to hear what that sounds like as well. I feel like raising the bridge pu has made the sound a little more edgy but to me it still sounds like it lacks warmth and presence in the mid and upper mids. I might have the capacitors and pots checked out to see if they're fine, if so I'll probably consider either replacing the pickups or selling the bass.

Sometimes it's also neck pickup needs lowering. Depress last fret- measure distance between pole piece and the string (E and G) for each pickup on each side.

I start at 8/64 on bass side and 6/64 of treble (or 4/32 and 3/32). There are a bunch of guidelines available online.

Get both pickups kind of in the area. Then usually to get them to balance (if that is wanted), I lower the neck pickup a little. To me, that is what helps with "growl"- close enough, but the bridge a bit closer.

Then start tweaking. Some basses really have a weak bridge pickup and the neck has to move down a good bit to balance. Some just sound bad if the neck is too far away, and you have to compromise.

Lower to me sounds cleaner. But also the tilt (from low to high) affects string balance.

When both pickups get turned up, you get scoop:

Thread 'What causes that Jazz Bass Scoop?'

May 26, 2016

I did search for an answer on this quite a few times before, but I've never found a satisfactory one based on circuit design/theory.

Why does that Jazz bass mid-scoop happen when both pickups are set to full volume? What circuit behaviors cause it?

I've heard :

1. One pickup loads the other

2. Comb filtering due to slightly off-phase signals from each pickup

3. Pickups in parallel average their signal together, in series it sums

4. Changing inductance / resistance cause a resonant peak shift (not sure how that ties into a scoop though)

Perhaps all are true at once, but I'd greatly...

• Antisyzygy
• jazz bass
• Replies: 40
• Forum: Pickups & Electronics [BG]

• 

So you can alter that by changing pots, pickup height, or vol.

Pickup height is one of the last things I do in a setup. The string height has to be locked in first.

 

[Tim Skaggs]

Push-pull (or push-push) tone pot to switch between parallel & series pickup wiring will probably get you what you’re after (with the switch in the series position).


A PBass pickup consists of two single coil pickups wired in series. The two coils are wound opposite directions with the magnet poles also reversed all for the purpose of hum bucking. The two coils are offset to primarily sense only two strings each.

Jazz bass pickups are single coil, opposite wound, with the magnet poles also reversed for purposes of hum bucking , but the two coils are wired in parallel and both coils sense all four strings. Guess what a Jazz bass with pickups wired in series sounds similar to?

So, with a parallel-series switch in a Jazz bass, you can have any pickup / tone setting you can get with an unmodified Jazz and a setting that sounds similar to; guess what?

 

[erratick]

Push-pull (or push-push) tone pot to switch between parallel & series pickup wiring will probably get you what you’re after (with the switch in the series position).


A PBass pickup consists of two single coil pickups wired in series. The two coils are wound opposite directions with the magnet poles also reversed all for the purpose of hum bucking. The two coils are offset to primarily sense only two strings each.

Jazz bass pickups are single coil, opposite wound, with the magnet poles also reversed for purposes of hum bucking , but the two coils are wired in parallel and both coils sense all four strings. Guess what a Jazz bass with pickups wired in series sounds similar to?

So, with a parallel-series switch in a Jazz bass, you can have any pickup / tone setting you can get with an unmodified Jazz and a setting that sounds similar to; guess what?

View attachment 7385054

Why would he need that if his old Geddy had the sound?

 

[mikeswals]

I understand what people are saying about para EQ and preamps etc. But personally, I feel like, if you don't like the fundamental sound of the bass, and you are always fighting it with EQ etc, then you will never be happy. Conversely, if the fundamental sound is good, everything is easy.

^ This 100%.
If it ain't the one, it ain't the one. Don't force it to what it isn't, you'll never be happy.

Ive had this happen several times with same model basses. Move on.

 

[Drienvyftigcent]

What I find odd about the sound samples is that the middle positions doesn't sound "different enough" from the neck position. It's almost like an active bass. The resonance peak should shift more when you have both pots open.

(I realize you don't have active pickups in there)

This is also something I'm noticing when I blend both pickups, the way the sound changes is not what I'm used to on a jazz bass but I have no clue what that means or how that's possible. It's as if a lot of the frequency information (mids especially) with both pickups on is lost and the sound isn't peaky enough, more so than usual. I know that it's normal to get a scooped sound with both PUs engaged on a jazz bass (I've had jazz basses before) but as I've been saying here, on this particular bass it just sounds off to me which makes me think something might be up with the wiring or pickups. Again, previous owner said it's all original stuff and the PUs have beveled polepieces like any other gl signature so I don't think it's changed. But maybe the sound being off is just my imagination

 

[BioDriver]

It's a jazz bass, they're always more scooped than a P or humbucker

 

[Tim Skaggs]

Why would he need that if his old Geddy had the sound?

Because his current Geddy Lee doesn’t have the sound he’s after and he’s looking for a solutions to get the sound, one of which was to change pickups. This mod gives him a different tone option similar to, or possibly exactly what he wants, for the price of a push-pull pot; <$15.

It’s a cheap & easy mod that’s completely reversible & gets a much different tone out of a Jazz. I’d recommend it to anyone with a Jazz even if they were happy with their current Jazz tone, which they would still have after this mod. It doesn’t change the Jazz bass function / tone at all when the switch is in “parallel” & comes close to getting PBass a tone in the “series” setting without the hum that comes with soloing a Jazz pickup.

 

[ToddB1963]

Notwithstanding the old saying - 'no two identical basses will sound exactly the same', in this case they sound almost exactly the same.

 

[logdrum]

They also have a north south orientation, did you check that. Neck should be north-up I believe

 

[DavidEdenAria]

I’m going to sound like a broken record with my recommendation…try a para eq pedal. A para eq pedal can reduce dominant unwanted frequencies while boosting desired frequencies that are lacking. You’ll be surprised by how much you can alter the tone of an instrument.

But…if you want to go with just the stock instrument, you really have only two options.
1) Adjusting pickup balance, height , etc.
2) Experiment with different strings.

I agree parametric EQ are remarkable for bass...I have a semi parametric EQ on my Eden Metro.

There are probably dirt and boost pedals that are worth a try if access to some....I do hear quite a few J basses that are scooped sounding but series wiring is another option.

 

[Malak the Mad]

I might have the capacitors and pots checked out to see if they're fine, if so I'll probably consider either replacing the pickups or selling the bass.

I'm a firm believer in "ergonomics", both in and out of work. If the Geddy-sig feels nice in your hands, I'd recommend exhausting all other options before selling it off. If upgrading the controls doesn't work, there are plenty of great pickup demos on YouTube to find the sound you're looking for.

Oh, and I like the series/parallel suggestions. It's a relatively low cost mod and can squeeze more toughness out of a two-pickup bass.

 

[uOpt]

Can you hunt down the same bass in a store near you? You could play one and then judge whether it sounds like your new or the old one. If the shop one sounds like your old one you know that the new one has been changed by a previous owner or is just a piece of wood that you don't bond with.

 

[micguy]

There are a buttload of variables that could account for the fact that you don't sound like Geddy. Strings, setup, pickups, the whole signal chain, Geddy may have the neck pickup soloed (which brings up the mids substantially), and.... Geddy may not be using a Geddy jazz bass on the track. Geddy has talked in interviews about the fact that people think he's playing "bass A" when it's really a completely different bass on any give track.

I have heard recordings on Youtube of worship music at my church where I wondered who the bass player was - it certainly didn't sound like me or one of my basses, and...when the camera cut to the bassist,....there I was. When Geddy records, someone behind a mixing desk decides what his bass sounds like, same thing in my case - you have no idea what was done to Geddys sound to get it to sound like it does on that record. It may not represent at all what Geddy's bass would sound like in your rig.


And you just plain don't have Geddy's fingers. Or (likely) his work/practice ethic. More time practicing, you may unlock the sound you want.

Your bass sounds fine. Practice.

 

[uOpt]

There are a buttload of variables that could account for the fact that you don't sound like Geddy. Strings, setup, pickups, the whole signal chain, Geddy may have the neck pickup soloed (which brings up the mids substantially), and.... Geddy may not be using a Geddy jazz bass on the track. Geddy has talked in interviews about the fact that people think he's playing "bass A" when it's really a completely different bass on any give track.

I have heard recordings on Youtube of worship music at my church where I wondered who the bass player was - it certainly didn't sound like me or one of my basses, and...when the camera cut to the bassist,....there I was. When Geddy records, someone behind a mixing desk decides what his bass sounds like, same thing in my case - you have no idea what was done to Geddys sound to get it to sound like it does on that record. It may not represent at all what Geddy's bass would sound like in your rig.


And you just plain don't have Geddy's fingers. Or (likely) his work/practice ethic. More time practicing, you may unlock the sound you want.

Your bass sounds fine. Practice.

OP says that he/she previously own a Geddy Lee bass that did sound like they wanted.

 

[micguy]

OP says that he/she previously own a Geddy Lee bass that did sound like they wanted.

So, at that time, what strings/signal chain/pickups/etc were being used?

 

[Tim Skaggs]

So, at that time, what strings/signal chain/pickups/etc were being used?

String discussion is in posts 4-12.
Signal chain discussion began post 7.

Pickup replacement was in the OP & pickup height discussion began on post 2 and again on post 17.

Amp used question on post 18.

EQ discussion scattered through.

Comparing w/other Geddy Lee basses recommended in post 54.

I recommended setting up a parallel / series switch in post 44.

A few questions came up about whether the electronics were original in a few places. OP believes all electronics are original.

The OP is in NW Europe, so I’m guessing he doesn’t see some posts for a few hours.

 

[micguy]

String discussion is in posts 4-12.
Signal chain discussion began post 7.

Pickup replacement was in the OP & pickup height discussion began on post 2 and again on post 17.

Amp used question on post 18.

EQ discussion scattered through.

Comparing w/other Geddy Lee basses recommended in post 54.

I recommended setting up a parallel / series switch in post 44.

A few questions came up about whether the electronics were original in a few places. OP believes all electronics are original.

The OP is in NW Europe, so I’m guessing he doesn’t see some posts for a few hours.

Having solved a lot of technical mysteries in my career, what you find over and over is people thst have gone through all the variables that control things, they believe nothing is different, but the result is different. Invariably, if you look hard enough or ask the right question, there is one (sometimes more) variables that are different. This will, if it’s solved, prove to be no different.

Something IS different.