Not even close. Play a midi-'tar with buttons instead of strings and you're getting somewhere.
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Why don't club drummers embrace electronic kits more often?
- Thread starter JGbassman
- Start date
Not even close. Play a midi-'tar with buttons instead of strings and you're getting somewhere.
I used to play in a band where the drummer was also the lead singer/band leader. He played with a $200 Yamaha drum pad (Invalid Link Removed). We got bookings all the time. He would sit up front on his drum throne with the pad in front of him. He was good. He was an entertainer.
My current drummer plays a $5,000 Roland electronic set. He complains all the time about how he should go back to acoustic. He was always way too loud before. We kid him that he damaged his ears and that's why he can't hear the Rolands in the mix.
It's been my experience that people blame their instruments or the playing environment far too often, including drummers.
Art
My current drummer plays a $5,000 Roland electronic set. He complains all the time about how he should go back to acoustic. He was always way too loud before. We kid him that he damaged his ears and that's why he can't hear the Rolands in the mix.
It's been my experience that people blame their instruments or the playing environment far too often, including drummers.
Art
I was thinking how it is a similar situation in that edrums should be considered a completely different instrument than acoustic drums with a different technique. Sort of like upright vs electric bass.
The point of the comparison is from an acoustic instrument whose volume range is limited to an instrument who's volume can be control with a single knob. Switching an electric bass for a "midi-'tar" isn't a good comparison at all because both already produce no sound by themselves, and can be turned down with a single knob.
They do require a different technique, but refusing to learn that technique would be like an upright player joining a Metal band then refusing to use an electric bass, even though nobody could hear the upright at all, because he'd have to learn a different technique.
I have run sound for a band that had a drummer who use a nice V Drum set. In fact, the whole band ran DI. They did a lot of corporate gigs. It was kind of cool to be able to turn down the whole band if asked
The only on stage monitoring we had was a couple of Galaxy HotSpots because the vocalist refused to use IEMs. All other band members were ampless and using IEMS.
We wound up getting requests to play our regular pop repertoire as background music for dinner instead of the jazz standards we normally played.
The Yamaha Silent brass is actually quite good. Although not really intended for this purpose, I don't see any reason it could not be adapted.
i know a lot of drummers who have "low-volume" kits with smaller sized drums for this exact reason.
that said, if he cant learn to play with dynamics, he shouldnt be playing gigs. really unenjoyable on the bandstand and in the audience.
that said, if he cant learn to play with dynamics, he shouldnt be playing gigs. really unenjoyable on the bandstand and in the audience.
I also play drums, and am a fan of e-drums, but understand why most drummers won't use them.
The bottom line is there are large obstacles to converting to e-drums:
- You have to become a tech-head. Almost to the level of a keyboard player.
Forever worrying about pickups, patches, cables, etc.
- They are *much* more expensive than an acoustic kit
- They won't do as much nuanced stuff as a real drum kit - so they aren't 'real' drums.
- They need a really good on-stage monitor or they will sound like a toy on-stage.
- Others have mentioned feel, cymbals are the biggest change, getting realistic feeling drum heads is the easy part, the cymbals you just have to adapt to, no choice there. There is one real cymbal option, but while it felt ok, the sound was not great, I'd rather play on rubber cymbals that sound like the real thing.
As far as sound, there are two good options that don't sound like synth-drums because they are sampled:
- The new Pearl Mimic can sound like real drums.
- the older drumit 5 from twobox can also sound as good.
That on-stage monitor point I illustrated to a fellow musician (I only use e-drums), he said it sounded like a toy, so I took my expensive 1000W monitor that was turned down almost to zero and cranked it up to what a loud drummer would do, where you could feel the kick in your gut, he was like 'Oh, now I get it'.
The bottom line is there are large obstacles to converting to e-drums:
- You have to become a tech-head. Almost to the level of a keyboard player.
Forever worrying about pickups, patches, cables, etc.
- They are *much* more expensive than an acoustic kit
- They won't do as much nuanced stuff as a real drum kit - so they aren't 'real' drums.
- They need a really good on-stage monitor or they will sound like a toy on-stage.
- Others have mentioned feel, cymbals are the biggest change, getting realistic feeling drum heads is the easy part, the cymbals you just have to adapt to, no choice there. There is one real cymbal option, but while it felt ok, the sound was not great, I'd rather play on rubber cymbals that sound like the real thing.
As far as sound, there are two good options that don't sound like synth-drums because they are sampled:
- The new Pearl Mimic can sound like real drums.
- the older drumit 5 from twobox can also sound as good.
That on-stage monitor point I illustrated to a fellow musician (I only use e-drums), he said it sounded like a toy, so I took my expensive 1000W monitor that was turned down almost to zero and cranked it up to what a loud drummer would do, where you could feel the kick in your gut, he was like 'Oh, now I get it'.
Sorry, but an electric bass is amplifying the motion of the string directly through sensing the change in magnetic field. E-drums are essentially using a switch to trigger a sound that is generated elsewhere and stored in memory. They are fundamentally different at the signal source.
Acoustic and electric bass are fundamentally the same at the source. The sensing and amplification happen in different ways, but the source of the signal is fundamentally the same.
I chose a TrapKat because the 5-piece band, travel bags, instruments, and full PA had to fit on this 7-passenger plane.
I totally understand now (as I did then) that the TrapKat is essentially a table top with rubber sensors that in no way attempts to approximate the feel of real drums. The drummer suggested an electronic kit that wouldn't fit on the plane, and a couple of wearable percussion instruments that you play with your fingers, somewhat like Future Man's drumitar.
I read up on the wearable percussion instruments and both were extremely limited (essentially toys) and would not be something a set player could pick up without dedicated practice. No one ever had any trouble immediately adapting to playing the TrapKat, although understanding and manipulating the user interface is another story. Let's just say I provided a lot of assistance on a lot of technical stuff that I have long since forgotten.
After selecting various kits from the sound module and dialing in the user interface, the results were quite good for pop music. After shows we often had a bunch of Generals up on stage going ga ga over the TrapKat. Pretty funny watching them with drum sticks. None of them ever expressed such an interest in acoustic drums or any other instrument, other than the random musician who actually played.
I'm talking your typical cover band today or the Elvis/50's of yesteryear. Not today's jazz or classical setting. I figured that was what the OP was referring to....it seems pretty obvious that we aren't talking about a symphony gig.
I too am first a drummer and bass is my second instrument.
I will say I really enjoy my Rolands for gigs. I do use live cymbals and bring a small snare to combine in my kit and go back and fourth on both snares as needed.
For a lot gigs a real drum set blows out the mix. It really does clean up the stage volume. The drummer in my current project is one of those heavy handed hacking types that just crushes everything. It amazes me how many drummers lack feel and just beat the crap out of the drums non stop.
I will say I really enjoy my Rolands for gigs. I do use live cymbals and bring a small snare to combine in my kit and go back and fourth on both snares as needed.
For a lot gigs a real drum set blows out the mix. It really does clean up the stage volume. The drummer in my current project is one of those heavy handed hacking types that just crushes everything. It amazes me how many drummers lack feel and just beat the crap out of the drums non stop.
All true but we're talking about changing from acoustic instruments to electric instruments to better match the needs of a gig. I can't think of any advantages to using a keyboard bass over a real electric bassist (other than one fewer musician to split the take with, maybe!) Certainly, no advantages on the volume/mixing front.
Yeah, that .10% of a typical weekend venue party audience. I'm much more interested in the other 99.9%.
I think these drummers are sticks-in-mud. Electronic kits have controllable volume, variable personalities (metal, Latin, jazz) and are lighter and have smaller footprints. They are a natural for lower tier gigging bands that play smaller venues. What's needed are some well known and respected drummers switching to these kits to get the rank and file to join the party.
It's 2018 and many/ most of us bassist and guitarists have moved on to powerful amps and pedal boards. It's time for drummers to get past the 60's.
It's 2018 and many/ most of us bassist and guitarists have moved on to powerful amps and pedal boards. It's time for drummers to get past the 60's.
