Double Bass Why Eb Necks?

[JBarz]

Hey gang,

This is sort of a non-sequitur, but I am wondering why on earth anyone would build a bass with an Eb neck as opposed to a D?

What is the history of this convention? Is there a benefit when playing older orchestral stuff or something like that?

Thanks,
Jeremy

 

[charlie monroe]

I'm just an interloper from the slab side, but I have wondered about this myself. It is a curious thing to me because a fretless seems very versatile when it comes to tuning.

 

[RSBBass]

Upright bass is one of the least standardized instruments out there. This is in part because they are a melding of the violin and viol traditions. Thus we have round backs, flat backs, violin shapes, gamba shapes, bussetto shapes, Eb necks, D necks. There are a fair number of basses with necks that aren't clearly Eb or D. I don't know if there is a traditional origin of one or the other and would be interested in hearing if someone knows.

 

[jj.833]

I also wonder.
I had a new cheapish Strunal plywood bass at luthier's once, its neck was - when the bridge was 'ideally' set - between D and Eb. We adjusted and tried for D and Eb neck setup, and I came to see that Eb is better for that bass, as the bridge could be closer to the right position in the center of the f-holes, the mensure would be closer to my preferred and the neck heel somehow came better into my hand. I had a feeling that the reason for this bass wanting to have Eb neck comes from manufacturing details - if the neck heel were few milimeters thicker, the bass could have been better set as D neck.
I imagine I could persuade myself to believe that this might have been the reason for D - Eb necks with old time hand carved basses. That it just came out on its own, respecting the demands of wood. But I don't think it would be the same with precise crafting tools of nowadays. (Even though the bass makers tend to be conservative, for fascinating reasons.)
As a player, I found out that the differences in neck shape and stickiness, fingerboard shape and mensure are affecting my intonation much more that whether the neck is Eb or D.

 

[TroyK]

I'm just an interloper from the slab side, but I have wondered about this myself. It is a curious thing to me because a fretless seems very versatile when it comes to tuning.

I don't understand what you are saying here. Can you clarify, please?


My bass has an Eb neck, though I couldn't tell you why exactly. I think I would be happy with a D neck if I were to ever get a new bass, but it would probably be about #10 on my priority list. They are more common, so chances are, but in theory that puts me one 1/2 step closer to the transition to thumb position.

I find that in keys common to jazz, it's not so bad to have that Eb easy to index for me, but that is probably a coincidence. No idea why some were made this way or if it was intentional.

 

[bassmanbrent]

I wish I knew the answer! The only thing I can add is that Eb necks seem to be an older tradition that is not really in favour for most folks these days. I think pretty much all modern luthiers utilize D necks unless an Eb neck is specified in a custom order.

 

[Ludwig]

The normal hand shape is the thumb opposite the middle finger. With an Eb neck, moving the thumb to the neck heal, you get the Simandl 4th position with the normal hand shape (index=D, middle finger=Eb). With a D neck, the hand position has to be modified having the thumb opposite the index finger to have the 4th position. Without moving the thumb from opposite the middle finger to opposite the index finger, the index finger will be on C#, not D.
The EB neck is the standard on other instruments of the violin family like the cello. I guess the slightly bigger body is the reason, the D neck became the more used version for double bass,

 

[james condino]

I grew up playing a stratocaster and always miss the extended neck room; nobody would ever build a 7 fret guitar neck. Hence I've built several "F" necks. It puts your pinky at the octave!

 

[charlie monroe]

Can you clarify, please?

Probably not.

In the BG world we have various scale length offerings but with few exceptions, they are all tuned the same; EADG.

I am ignorant of the reason behind the DB use of differing nomenclature. Don't know if mensure is the sole factor or if physical neck dimensions contribute, etc.

Edit: I responded before I read any other replies. I now have a rudimentary understanding.

 

[BarfanyShart]

On the one hand, I think more notes on the neck before the joint is an advantage, at least theoretically. But, on the other hand, having the joint sit at the 7th "fret" makes a lot of sense intuitively for the modern player mapping the fingerboard in their head.

Subjectively, I have always had the impression that Eb necks are more "old-fashioned" and D necks are more "modern" - but I'm not sure where I got that impression from. Regardless, I've never met a player who had an overwhelming preference for one over the other. My son had a student instrument last year with an Eb neck, the first one I've ever spent any time with - I didn't hate it.

 

[jj.833]

I just done a bit of measuring. The distance between D and Eb is about 4 cm on my 1045mm scale 3/4 bass. If you wanted to change D neck bass to Eb neck bass by moving the bridge towards the fingerboard, the distance the bridge needs to travel would be about 10 cm.
That I think disproves my theory 'we carve it and then we'll see whether it's D or Eb'. Noone would do such a mistake. Even if there's a shape of the heel as a factor too. I guess @RSBBass is right.

 

[Jim Dedrick]

I’ve never understood why some are Eb and some are D. I currently own both having played the Eb neck for about 30 years before buying the D neck. Each instrument is very different in terms of neck width and depth but I have no issue bouncing back and forth between instruments. Of course there is more than a $20k difference in value so one gets played a lot more than the other....

Curious to try an F neck as mentioned above.

 

[brianrost]

I can tell you that having and playing one of each regularly is pretty schizophrenic. I just reorient myself after tuning up by playing D and E on the G string, A on the D and E on the A against the respective open strings and hope for the best

An F neck? That would be insane

 

[bassmanbrent]

The normal hand shape is the thumb opposite the middle finger. With an Eb neck, moving the thumb to the neck heal, you get the Simandl 4th position with the normal hand shape (index=D, middle finger=Eb).

This makes a lot of sense! Thanks.

 

[GretschWretch]

An F neck? That would be insane

Not for roots/Americana players, whose standards may be a little more flexible. Any neck that enables me to nail the octave G without going into thumb position piques my interest.

 

[DrayMiles]

I have a Juzek that is a D neck and another Gamba that is an Eb neck. I bounce between the two and IMO, there really isn't THAT big of an adjustment. I usually orient myself by playing a g harmonic whilst playing a few times. The luthier offered to make my latest acquisition a D neck, but I said leave it as is... I like a challenge... And so far, regarding this topic... there hasn't been any...

 

[turf3]

The normal hand shape is the thumb opposite the middle finger. ...,

Well, kind of, except hands are all different. I have broad palms and short fingers (not anything freakish, just a bit away from average) and my thumb always comes out across from my index finger. There is simply no way I could distort my hand position enough to keep my thumb across from my middle finger consistently.

 

[eerbrev]

SO. I HAVE INFORMATION ABOUT THIS. Or, at least, a new-to-me theory that makes a lot of sense. Credit to Korneel Le Compte - Check out his Viennese Bass book here (pdf warning). He specifically talks about this on page 78.

Put most simply, it has to do with frets. Having an Eb heel allows you to squish one more fret onto the neck, which is not doable without drilling a hole in a D neck. Does this apply to all Eb basses? I doubt it, but It's a really strong and sensible reason for their existence. Viennese basses were by no means the only fretted string basses, just the last of a standard tradition. Considering the lineage of the double bass, and its similarity in construction to the gamba (especially in things like neck length as a ratio to body size), it's the most sensible explanation I've heard.

 

[DrayMiles]

Fret != upright bass

 

[Wasnex]

If I remember correctly confused, all of the basses I have played had D necks. A few of the basses owned by various organizations I worked in were Eb necks. I have a fairly inflexible personality type and I suspect an Eb neck would have driven me a bit nuts.

I believe someone mentioned that Eb necks were once much more common. Another thing to consider is I believe basses were once commonly much larger, are at least commonly had a longer mensure.

Modern full sized basses seem to hover around about 42" scale. A lot of the older basses I have come across had a much longer scale, or they had been chopped or fitted with new shorter neck.

Chopped is term I was taught to mean that the mensure is shortened by methods such as adding a false nut and bridge relocation.

Related thread: False nuts, Eb and D necks