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Why is it always the drummer??

#21
EagleMoon said:
My guess is that a lot of drummers haven't had exposure to music theory. They know how to hit the drums, but they're not familiar with the nuances of how music works. Same could be said about a lot of guitar players too. :D
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I totally agree.

I find that there are essentially 3 types of players out there: The beginner, the musician, and the guy (or gal) that owns an instrument.

The beginner is just that, somebody just starting out and learning about the instrument. It's too early in their career to see how they're gonna turn out so its our responsibilities as more experienced players to guide them into the "musician" direction.

The musician is the ideal that we're looking for: good player that's physically comfortable with their instruments, has enough knowledge and theory behind them that when you say its a 1-4-5 progression in F# they know what you're talking about, and has great situational awareness for the rehersal or gig. The musician spends a majority of the time listening to the band as they play and adjusts accordingly, as opposed to the "listen to me shred!" thing.

Unfortunately I think the largest catagory is the "I own one" group. These are the people that may have the physical dexterityy (or not) to play the instrument but no understanding of music theory or the differences between noodling in your bedroom verses jamming with a band or even just other people around a campfire. These are the guys that play guitar at full blast focusing only on their finger tapping, whammy tricks, and artificial harmonics, or the drummers that play at only one volume, full blast, or say things like "I just go by feel" (a.k.a I refuse to learn anything or get better) . We have all been guilty of being in this catagory for at least a brief time (admit it) but some people never leave it and like I said this is probably the largest group out there. :rollno:

Personally I would rather play with a band member that had less ability but better attitude and a willingness to learn than the guy with chops that refuses to work with the band. Only singers get a little (and I do mean LITTLE) amount of leeway with this. If your singer has no sense of pitch your screwed. Its as simple as that. If your singer is tone deaf or they're a complete A** get them a karaoke machine and a bus pass and find somebody else.

Go to shows and watch the bands in your area. If you find a good musician, keep in contact whether you're in a band together or not. There may be a band with a great drummer, singer, guitarist, or whatever thats just as unhappy in their situation as you are with yours. It's all networking and you never know when an opportunity will arise to play with a great musician.
 
#22
Raymeous said:
I totally agree.

I find that there are essentially 3 types of players out there: The beginner, the musician, and the guy (or gal) that owns an instrument.

The beginner is just that, somebody just starting out and learning about the instrument. It's too early in their career to see how they're gonna turn out so its our responsibilities as more experienced players to guide them into the "musician" direction.

The musician is the ideal that we're looking for: good player that's physically comfortable with their instruments, has enough knowledge and theory behind them that when you say its a 1-4-5 progression in F# they know what you're talking about, and has great situational awareness for the rehersal or gig. The musician spends a majority of the time listening to the band as they play and adjusts accordingly, as opposed to the "listen to me shred!" thing.

Unfortunately I think the largest catagory is the "I own one" group. These are the people that may have the physical dexterityy (or not) to play the instrument but no understanding of music theory or the differences between noodling in your bedroom verses jamming with a band or even just other people around a campfire. These are the guys that play guitar at full blast focusing only on their finger tapping, whammy tricks, and artificial harmonics, or the drummers that play at only one volume, full blast, or say things like "I just go by feel" (a.k.a I refuse to learn anything or get better) . We have all been guilty of being in this catagory for at least a brief time (admit it) but some people never leave it and like I said this is probably the largest group out there. :rollno:

Personally I would rather play with a band member that had less ability but better attitude and a willingness to learn than the guy with chops that refuses to work with the band. Only singers get a little (and I do mean LITTLE) amount of leeway with this. If your singer has no sense of pitch your screwed. Its as simple as that. If your singer is tone deaf or they're a complete A** get them a karaoke machine and a bus pass and find somebody else.

Go to shows and watch the bands in your area. If you find a good musician, keep in contact whether you're in a band together or not. There may be a band with a great drummer, singer, guitarist, or whatever thats just as unhappy in their situation as you are with yours. It's all networking and you never know when an opportunity will arise to play with a great musician.
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I think you've hit the nail on the head. There are so many of the "I own one's" out there that it's hard to tell they're not musicians until you try playing with them. These people can turn into musicians over time if they stick with it, but most seem to be just interested in showing off.
 
#23
Raymeous,

I see what you are getting at and I agree with what you are saying - to an extent.

I think that there are plenty of 'I own one' muscians out there who are still great musicians. I fall into this category to an extent. I am self taught, know a little bit about scales etc, however I have no interest in showing off my chops and I continue to learn from better musicians I work with, and am willing to work hard at that.
If you told me to play a 1-4-5 progression in F#, I would have no idea what you aretlking about, HOWEVER, that is where I sit back and see what is played to learn what that is :)

cheers,
Jordan
 
#28
EagleMoon said:
This is my opinion, but I think you get more of the "wannabees" with guitar and drums rather than bass. Bass isn't considered to be as cool as guitar and drums, which is probably a good thing because it tends to lead to less wanking and more serious interest.
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Totally.

In my years of teaching at the School of Rock, I absolutely saw this scenario play out to the T.

The really dedicated ones were always the bassists, without fail. All of my bass students practiced hard, and were much more progressive in general than the guitarists and drummers. No one wants to play bass, and usually when one did, they were totally committed to it, and often played in their school bands/orchestras as well.

Guitarists were a dime a dozen, and parents looked at lessons as a good daycare for their wannabe guitarist. I'd say about 10% of them went somewhere.

The drummers were the second largest group, and were usually the kids whose parents had more money to afford the equipment. I think if that factor were eliminated, the amount of drummers would be on par with the amount of guitarists. I think that drummers sometimes get the mentality that they have less to learn as far as musicality because they think they can BS their way through the beat. Obviously, that doesn't work.

Another factor I find is that all instruments go through their "wank" phase, where they know they have developed chops and feel obligated to show them off constantly. The problem is, drummers in their wank phase completely destroy song structure, feel, and dynamics.
 
#31
Just like with bass, it takes a certain type of person to be a drummer. Not to generalize or offend anyone, but from my experience, that type of person is energetic and immature. Many times, a lack of discipline plays a role, so you can't get them to learn the form of the song, which in turn leads to them screwing around and putting fills where they don't belong because they don't know what else to do. Their attention span is usually very short and their reliability is almost non-existant. That's what I've observed from dealing with a few different drummers, anyhow.

However, those problems apply to many musicians I've been around, drums or no drums.
And, there are lots of drummers out there who are great at what they do and are sincere mature musicians etc.
 
#32
You know it is not always the drummer. I have been playing drums in bands since 1961. It has been my experience that there can be problems with anybody on any instrument. Like Louie Lamour always writes "You ride for the brand." You play for the music and not the chicks or your own freaking ego. As a drummer you are either a musician or you are a banger but something similar can be said for everyone on every instrument.

edit: and at 61 years old I doubt I am immature...
 
#35
I woke up one morning and had to take a whiz. Walked down the hall and there was the guitar player sitting there in the hall snorting ashes out of the ash tray...

Had bass players that could not find the pocket on a pool table....trash drummers if you feel the need but anybody can be the problem

edit: been reading music since I was ten, played in symphonies, ice carnivals, marching bands, jazz ensembles, power trios, blues bands, horn bands, country bands, bluegrass (on banjo) etc....and I am sure I am not special in all of this as a drummer but better yet, not special in all of this as a musician.
 

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