Why is mixing cab sizes a bad idea?

[Jared Houseman]

I've heard that you shouldn't mix cabs, but why is this?

I would have figured that using a 1x15 and a 2x10 together would give you a warm low end from the 15 and a tight top end from the 10s, but I guess this isn't the case.

 

[micguy]

It’s a horrible idea, because it starts a thread we’ve been through dozens of times. I’ve never said this before, but use the search function!

 

[Jared Houseman]

It’s a horrible idea, because it starts a thread we’ve been through dozens of times. I’ve never said this before, but use the search function!

I did search but all I found was "it's a terrible idea" but never why or examples from people who have tried it. I would try myself but i don't have the cabs, or the momey to waste on a sound I might not like.

 

[Scottgun]

This is TB. You will get scolded no matter what you do, so post away!

In any case, what do peeps mean by mixing cabs? I thought as extension cab was a normal thing, or is that something else?

 

[Jared Houseman]

This is TB. You will get scolded no matter what you do, so post away!

In any case, what do peeps mean by mixing cabs? I thought as extension cab was a normal thing, or is that something else?

Like using different sized speakers, different brands, etc

 

[DWBass]

Uneven power distribution. Cabs should match distributing power equally.

 

[ctmullins]

I've heard that you shouldn't mix cabs, but why is this?

I would have figured that using a 1x15 and a 2x10 together would give you a warm low end from the 15 and a tight top end from the 10s, but I guess this isn't the case.

1. 15s aren’t necessarily inherently “warm”, and 10s aren’t necessarily inherently “tight”.

2. The problem with mixing cabs is the different frequency responses can sometimes combine in undesirable ways, making corrective EQ difficult or impossible. The reverse is also sometimes true: sometimes two different cabs sound fantastic together! But you don’t know until you try it, and even then they will interact differently in different rooms.

 

[Jared Houseman]

1. 15s aren’t necessarily inherently “warm”, and 10s aren’t necessarily inherently “tight”.

2. The problem with mixing cabs is the different frequency responses can sometimes combine in undesirable ways, making corrective EQ difficult or impossible. The reverse is also sometimes true: sometimes two different cabs sound fantastic together! But you don’t know until you try it, and even then they will interact differently in different rooms.

Thank you! Maybe I should look into biamping. Ive tried biamping with a 1x12 combo and a 1x8 combo and got fantastic results with dirty sounds but couldn't dial in a clean tone

 

[ThisBass]

Fortunatelly I started a thread

Uneven power distribution. Cabs should match distributing power equally.

I'd prefere loudspeaker getting matching power rather than cabs.
Hope you agree this consideration makes sense?

 

[Pings Bass]

I used to biamp in the 80s, 1x15 (or 2x15) + 2x12 with a horn. Sounded great on stage. Had lots of head room and moved a lot of air.

But now I am super happy with a micro amp and a 1x12, especially when load out time comes around.

IMO modern amps, drivers and cabinets can pack a lot of punch in small packages. Having a big rig is a pain to move and doesn't give much advantage, beyond moving more air. Of course, if you're playing rock with a loud drummer, you may need that if you don't have good FOH and monitor support.

 

[ThisBass]

Thank you! Maybe I should look into biamping. Ive tried biamping with a 1x12 combo and a 1x8 combo and got fantastic results with dirty sounds but couldn't dial in a clean tone

Honsetly that makes no sense.
Biamping does not mean you have two amplifiers pushing power to two different cabs.
It rather means that you power one cab low passed with one amplifier and a second cab high passed with another amplifier.

Furthermore it makes no sense that you get a good "distorted" sound with your system while the clean sound sucks.
May be you are missing "loudness" with your clean sound? 1x12 and 1x8 isn't lots of cone surface to get a "loud" clean sound versus distorted sound stuff.

 

[Wasnex]

Fortunatelly I started a thread

I'd prefere loudspeaker getting matching power rather than cabs.
Hope you agree this consideration makes sense?

Sorry I don't. Rather than making generalized rules, it's better to consider the specific cabs and drivers we are dealing with.

For example if you have a 210 cab and each 10" driver can handle 100W and a 115 cab that will handle 200W, you definitely don't want to feed all three drivers 200W (600W total). Here the cabs should have the same impedance and total power should be limited to 400W. This will send 200W to each cab, and each 10" driver will get 100W.

Ideally the cabs should also have similar sensitivity ratings. I leave it to you to discuss the relevance of dissimilar box tunings.

 

[agedhorse]

It may or may not be a bad idea, depending on the particular cabinets, the understanding and skill of the designer with regards to phase response and the coherency of acoustic summation.

There are certainly some cabinet brands and models that mix very well, but there are also some that do not.

 

[ThisBass]

Sorry I don't. Rather than making generalized rules, it's better to consider the specific cabs and drivers we are dealing with.

For example if you have a 210 cab and each 10" driver can handle 100W and a 115 cab that will handle 200W, you definitely don't want to feed all three drivers 200W (600W total). Here the cabs should have the same impedance and total power should be limited to 400W. This will send 200W to each cab, and each 10" driver will get 100W.

Ideally the cabs should also have similar sensitivity ratings. I leave it to you to discuss the relevance of dissimilar box tunings.

Which was (unfortunatelly) a good bet for rather bad match cause driver paramters would (then naturally) differ too much to provide a good compliment.

For MI bass cabs the most "common" drivers come with a 2.5" VC. These drivers do naturally differ at some content (power wise as well) but, as long as the parameters read in the ballpark, nothing to talk home about.

 

[ThisBass]

[QUOTE="ThisBass, post: 22364544, member: 227671"

I'd prefere loudspeaker getting matching power rather than cabs.
Hope you agree this consideration makes sense?

The words are misleading the point.

In total it makes more sense to consider the power handling of each driver and how the power is distributed to each driver.

 

[Jared Houseman]

Honsetly that makes no sense.
Biamping does not mean you have two amplifiers pushing power to two different cabs.
It rather means that you power one cab low passed with one amplifier and a second cab high passed with another amplifier.

Furthermore it makes no sense that you get a good "distorted" sound with your system while the clean sound sucks.
May be you are missing "loudness" with your clean sound? 1x12 and 1x8 isn't lots of cone surface to get a "loud" clean sound versus distorted sound stuff.

I find having the 8" high passed is just to harsh for clean tones but I like the brightness when driven. It sounds alright when I bring up the bass and bring down the treble on the 8" but that defeats the point of biamping, instead it just sounds like a cheap 8" combo

 

[Wasnex]

Which was (unfortunatelly) a good bet for rather bad match cause driver paramters would (then naturally) differ too much to provide a good compliment.

For MI bass cabs the most "common" drivers come with a 2.5" VC. These drivers do naturally differ at some content (power wise as well) but, as long as the parameters read in the ballpark, nothing to talk home about.

If you compare the Hartke HD210 and HD115, they are both rated at 500W 8 Ohms. I can't find sensitivity ratings.

I think a lot of people would assume that since these cabs are from the same product line, they would pair well together. I couldn't say one way or the other. The HD210 lists F3 at 50hz and F10 at 35hz. The HD115 lists F3 at 45hz and F10 at 20hz. That suggest dissimilar tunings, but I couldn't say if it is different enough to cause a major problem. I think it would be best to audition both and then order a pair of matching cabs, whichever model I think sounds best.

 

[Slevage]

Honsetly that makes no sense.
Biamping does not mean you have two amplifiers pushing power to two different cabs.
It rather means that you power one cab low passed with one amplifier and a second cab high passed with another amplifier.

Furthermore it makes no sense that you get a good "distorted" sound with your system while the clean sound sucks.
May be you are missing "loudness" with your clean sound? 1x12 and 1x8 isn't lots of cone surface to get a "loud" clean sound versus distorted sound stuff.

You can bi-amp with two combos if you manipulate the preamp/ eq sections.
Bi-amp literally means “ two amps”.
A cross over is best, but not required.

I used to play 6 string bass and had great results using a guitar combo and a small bass amp along with an A or B / A + B pedal.
I think Chris Squier did something similar with his Ric in the early days.

 

[Wasnex]

You can bi-amp with two combos if you manipulate the preamp/ eq sections.
Bi-amp literally means “ two amps”.
A cross over is best, but not required.

Most consider an active crossover an essential element in a biamp rig.

I used to play 6 string bass and had great results using a guitar combo and a small bass amp along with an A or B / A + B pedal.
I think Chris Squier did something similar with his Ric in the early days.

I would call this multi-amping. I used to multi-amp my Ric 4001 with Ric-O-Sound. A few months later, I bought a crossover and started biamping. I used the same amps.

 

[ThisBass]

If you compare the Hartke HD210 and HD115, they are both rated at 500W 8 Ohms. I can't find sensitivity ratings.

I think a lot of people would assume that since these cabs are from the same product line, they would pair well together. I couldn't say one way or the other. The HD210 lists F3 at 50hz and F10 at 35hz. The HD115 lists F3 at 45hz and F10 at 20hz. That suggest dissimilar tunings, but I couldn't say if it is different enough to cause a major problem. I think it would be best to audition both and then order a pair of matching cabs, whichever model I think sounds best.

In first place I guess an "stupid" advertising issue (sometimes issues do happen for ever what reason), in second place marketing department goals.

Do you really know about what a 500 Watt cone speaker looks like on specs respectively efficience?

edit,
it might be interesting to ask a question to the Hartke support center....
Personally I don't feel any need doing it.