Why is mixing cab sizes a bad idea?

[Brad Johnson]

Cause in reality aside from few exceptions. A 15" speaker and 10" speaker pretty much cover the same bandwidth and Extend to 3 to 4k.

The 10s don't offer any mystical magical more high-end than a good well designed 15"

Likewise the frequency response of every speaker is slightly different and can cause wierd response peaks or dips.

Pretty much no benefit.

Like a well tuned balanced engine. All equal well balanced pistons driving away equally to a crank

Balanced well tuned and matched speakers all driving away equally to air.

Make for a much more predictable and consistent sound. Not wasting power creating a unpredictable response full of peaks and valleys.

Even if all that were true it does not preclude a combination of unlike cabs from being more preferable. So I have no idea where "pretty much no benefit" fits in.

As I mentioned before, folks like you seem to only mention negatives while not speaking of positives. Why?


All fifteen and tens don't cover the same frequency range. Plenty of well-loved fifteens don't go to 4k.

As far as well tuned and balanced engines as an example of like things, check out Honda's VTEC.

The wasting power thing is interesting too. Especially considering how cheap watts are these days.

 

[BogeyBass]

I don't care to argue lol or try to make anybody understand.

Most 10s don't go above 3 k either and actually lack highs if they are designed too have more xmax for bass use

I don't understand why people are so insistent that there is some benefit in mixing drivers lol.

A bass 10" and bass 15" literally cover the same bandwidth.

I don't mention any positive things cause there is none.

Waste of power means you are using amplifier power to cancel frequencies not amplify them with mismatched drivers. Then use even more power to over EQ the holes you just wasted power to produce anyways. When if you just use 2x 4x 8x 16x of the same driver you just keep making the same bandwidth they all do louder. Easy peasy.

If I want good high-end and magical midrange that cuts through a mix. I just use the same glorious 15" driver I've always used that hits 4k. Plenty highs plenty lows. I don't need a 10" for " highs" cause the 15" actually has more. I don't need 2 of those drivers or one of these drivers lol. I just drop 4 of those 15" on stage and I'm done.

Otherwise I just keep using the same 3k ish response 10" speakers I've always used in a 8x10

No cancellations no waste power. Tons low end tons high end. I don't need another 15" or 18" for anything...the 810 has graciously provided me with low end.

When I wanted to over EQ and detune my bass to drop D or C the 810 did fine lol.

And when I toured at ridiculous volumes. Did I add a 2x15 to my 810. No I dropped another 810 next to it.

Highs were fine. Mids were great , lowend was crushing. And I did it all with less power most could imagine. I don't need 600 or 800 watts of power lol.

I already know how much more SPL I can get by doubling speaker area.

Only reason I stick to the 810 cause it's lighter and easier than a 4x15 or basically one cab instead of 2

And for high volume touring I use 2 cabinets instead of having to use 4

 

[agedhorse]

Even if all that were true it does not preclude a combination of unlike cabs from being more preferable. So I have no idea where "pretty much no benefit" fits in.

As I mentioned before, folks like you seem to only mention negatives while not speaking of positives. Why?


All fifteen and tens don't cover the same frequency range. Plenty of well-loved fifteens don't go to 4k.

As far as well tuned and balanced engines as an example of like things, check out Honda's VTEC.

The wasting power thing is interesting too. Especially considering how cheap watts are these days.

Agreed, and they do so in spite of concrete evidence that some players, after testing out the various combinations, PREFERRED the mixed size solution better.

Whenever somebody preaches the absolutes about something, especially when faced with evidence otherwise, makes everything they say suspect with regard to both fact and opinion.

There's plenty of factual inaccuracies in his post that IMO makes everything he says is subject to additional scrutiny because I know that much of what he says does not agree with either what I know to be fact, or what other players do successfully in spite of him saying it won't work.

 

[Brad Johnson]

Agreed, and they do so in spite of concrete evidence that some players, after testing out the various combinations, PREFERRED the mixed size solution better.

Whenever somebody preaches the absolutes about something, especially when faced with evidence otherwise, makes everything they say suspect with regard to both fact and opinion.

There's plenty of factual inaccuracies in his post that IMO makes everything he says is subject to additional scrutiny because I know that much of what he says does not agree with either what I know to be fact, or what other players do successfully in spite of him saying it won't work.

Agreed... which is why stances like his continue to baffle me. At least he's not arguing in his last post... while adding even more misinformation.

 

[Brad Johnson]

I don't care to argue lol or try to make anybody understand.

Most 10s don't go above 3 k either and actually lack highs if they are designed too have more xmax for bass use

Considering you were the one who brought up 3-4k being norm for tens and fifteens...

Okay

I don't understand why people are so insistent that there is some benefit in mixing drivers lol.

While you're insistent that there is no benefit?

Beats me.

A bass 10" and bass 15" literally cover the same bandwidth.

You might want to make up your mind.

I don't mention any positive things cause there is none.

Uh huh

Waste of power means you are using amplifier power to cancel frequencies not amplify them with mismatched drivers. Then use even more power to over EQ the holes you just wasted power to produce anyways. When if you just use 2x 4x 8x 16x of the same driver you just keep making the same bandwidth they all do louder. Easy peasy.

I'll let someone else address this dogma.

If I want good high-end and magical midrange that cuts through a mix. I just use the same glorious 15" driver I've always used that hits 4k. Plenty highs plenty lows. I don't need a 10" for " highs" cause the 15" actually has more. I don't need 2 of those drivers or one of these drivers lol. I just drop 4 of those 15" on stage and I'm done.

Otherwise I just keep using the same 3k ish response 10" speakers I've always used in a 8x10

No cancellations no waste power. Tons low end tons high end. I don't need another 15" or 18" for anything...the 810 has graciously provided me with low end.

When I wanted to over EQ and detune my bass to drop D or C the 810 did fine lol.

And when I toured at ridiculous volumes. Did I add a 2x15 to my 810. No I dropped another 810 next to it.

Highs were fine. Mids were great , lowend was crushing. And I did it all with less power most could imagine. I don't need 600 or 800 watts of power lol.

I already know how much more SPL I can get by doubling speaker area.

Only reason I stick to the 810 cause it's lighter and easier than a 4x15 or basically one cab instead of 2

And for high volume touring I use 2 cabinets instead of having to use 4

Yeah!

 

[ThisBass]

I don't care to argue lol or try to make anybody understand.

Anybody who argues something (in a forum) tries to make someone anyhow understand at some content, just for example you you may read this

Most 10s don't go above 3 k either and actually lack highs if they are designed too have more xmax for bass use

That's intersting cause lots of full range 10" and 12" drivers are supported by a HT device crossed at about 4kHz.
If most of all tens would not go higher than about 3kHz then a crossover at 4kHz would not make sense anymore.

I don't understand why people are so insistent that there is some benefit in mixing drivers lol.

Cause its possible to get a distinct voicing and "feel" which was impssible to get with only one identical driver.
I have a 70's fridge and a 212 that I "tuned" to my personal needs. However one of my favorite sounds on stage I ever experienced was pushed by mixed rig (different speaker size and different brand of cabs)

A bass 10" and bass 15" literally cover the same bandwidth.

Isn't it common wisdom on TB forum that drivers size means nothing but driver size?
So if driver size means nothing but drivers size so how was it possible that "A bass 10" and bass 15" literally cover the same bandwidth"?
Without knowing nothing about essential driver parameters and/or cab design (respectively design goals) its not possible to predict anything.

I don't mention any positive things cause there is none.

If you never experienced any positive things then its very likely not your cup of tea.

Waste of power means you are using amplifier power to cancel frequencies not amplify them with mismatched drivers.

You know I ain't a phase issue believer
I think you are arguing nothing but myths
Didn't you tell us the following words?

I don't care to argue lol or try to make anybody understand.

Then use even more power to over EQ the holes you just wasted power to produce anyways.

That's factual totally incorrect cause there are no such things like "holes" present with different cabs.
Those "holes" are at most present in peoples imagination (cause some folks do the very best to implement illusions of holes)
btw, I hope the word play is comprehensible

When if you just use 2x 4x 8x 16x of the same driver you just keep making the same bandwidth they all do louder. Easy peasy.

If I was nitpicking enough I would say nope.
In first place interference issues (caused by time delay) does not depend on driver size. So your pedigree system suffers on just the same artifacts just the same as it was for a mixing rig.
You tried to tell us something about "holes" and over EQing.
So here you are. Indeed interference artifacts can be described roughly as "holes". So even your prefered "matching" system sucks on issues you intend to address elsewhere

If I want good high-end and magical midrange that cuts through a mix. I just use the same glorious 15" driver I've always used that hits 4k. Plenty highs plenty lows. I don't need a 10" for " highs" cause the 15" actually has more. I don't need 2 of those drivers or one of these drivers lol. I just drop 4 of those 15" on stage and I'm done.

Didn't you former try to tell us that

A bass 10" and bass 15" literally cover the same bandwidth.

 

[agedhorse]

Here's the plot of one 10" driver that I have used in the past and I like very much...

Here's another one, haven't used it (yet) but in testing had some nice voicing properties:

Now both of these drivers I selected because I liked the character and texture of the mid voicing for a design that I had in mind. Clearly, both of these 10" drivers have no difficulty with 4kHz response.

 

[BogeyBass]

I've mixed all kinds of various speakers.

4x10 ,1x15
4x10, 2x15
810, 2x15
810, 1x18
810, 2x18
2x10, 1x18

Alot of time, lifting gas and money
And was really important to me to not only have a great sound. But maintain levels and overall presence on stage.

Not only make me happy, band happy and label happy. But stay up with the pressures of keeping up with, even out performing some extremely talented bands we performed with.

Just remember my first experience when we had the money to actually buy matching equipment.

And the absolutely overwhelming feeling of how wonderful a matching 4x15 rig sounded. And how consistent it was in many stage situations. When it was very stressful dealing with inconsistent sound with previous rigs.

Likewise how upset I personally felt for buying alot. Of 1x18 and 2x18 and mismatched 1x15 and 2x15 cabs. That money was gone. And could of helped alot in some tough road conditions

When all I had to do is add another 8x10 to the one I already had. Lol

So so so consistent and more presence I had ever experienced.

To even think I thought of selling the thing

Technically I do care. I care alot about people. Even complete strangers.

Basically why I try telling other people so they possible don't spend alot of money trying to find that tone and having a stress free rig. Specially at big shows. It's alot of weight on your shoulders. Then to be upset or frustrated with your rig. Or even possibly happy with what you think is good. But find out due to assumptions personally missed out on better things...cause you just didn't know. And just following what you thought was just the normal way of doing stuff.

 

[brother21]

I mixed 4-10" and a 2-12" and the sound was all wrong. But 6-10" is beautiful in a large venue. 15"s have no clarity for me.

 

[byrdland]

It’s a horrible idea, because it starts a thread we’ve been through dozens of times. I’ve never said this before, but use the search function!

Funny and true. Rock on!

 

[mikael wilt]

Anyone's thoughts on using 2 combo amps together ? I currently have been using a Ampeg BA-210sp for gigs. I also have an Ampeg BA-115 that I am thinking of connecting the 2 with a "Live Wire Solutions" ABY Box which allows you to run either 2 Basses through 1 amp or 1 Bass through 2 amps. The combination gives me 2 X10's & 1 X15, and also 220 watts & 100 watts of power. I have yet to try the combination out.

 

[agedhorse]

Should work ok but verify that the acoustic polarity is the same. This can be different on a model by model basis.

 

[Wood and Wire]

Anyone's thoughts on using 2 combo amps together ? I currently have been using a Ampeg BA-210sp for gigs. I also have an Ampeg BA-115 that I am thinking of connecting the 2 with a "Live Wire Solutions" ABY Box which allows you to run either 2 Basses through 1 amp or 1 Bass through 2 amps. The combination gives me 2 X10's & 1 X15, and also 220 watts & 100 watts of power. I have yet to try the combination out.

If the 2x10 is 220 Watts, and the 1x15 is 100 Watts - proceed with caution.

 

[SCOTT_GROVE]

I've always loved 2 and 3 way systems with a power amp or two, active crossover, rack compressor, rack EQ etc. It just ends up being half of a sound system. Your bass is going to end up in the FOH system anyway....why settle for a goofy, little amp when you can have all the advantages that your own sound system would offer?

 

[frank0stein2000]

That's the one thing I despise about TB. You ask a question and get sarcastic answers like "Google it!" or "we've talked about this before!". You wouldn't be asking on this forum if you already had the answer. There's a lot of holier than thou people on here...

 

[Chico Cornell]

Here is my own experience from when I played out of someone else's cab. I forget what kind of head but it was a 2x12 and 1x18 cab. Standing 3 feet,in other words nearby, it had a certain sound, and 10' or 12' it sounded completely different. So long story short, it was not a predictable sound. It seems from my limited experience that 4x10 has a sound that is most consistent for different parts of the room. Depending on the room. (Flight of the Concords reference there.)

 

[Downunderwonder]

Anyone's thoughts on using 2 combo amps together ? I currently have been using a Ampeg BA-210sp for gigs. I also have an Ampeg BA-115 that I am thinking of connecting the 2 with a "Live Wire Solutions" ABY Box which allows you to run either 2 Basses through 1 amp or 1 Bass through 2 amps. The combination gives me 2 X10's & 1 X15, and also 220 watts & 100 watts of power. I have yet to try the combination out.

Further to Agedhorse, if you plug in both with the ABY box you may find some lows drop out. That's when the acoustic polarity is off. To fix that you would swap over the speaker leads to the 15 terminals to make it push/pull the same as the other cab.

Beware of concluding that mixing is the best thing since sliced bread from hearing your new big boomfy dual combo rig.

When I crossover biamped my own mixed bass cab stack for a lark I found it sounded even better than mono, but not as loud and twice as heavy.

 

[agedhorse]

To correct polarity problems with a quality ABY box, use the phase invert that's usually present on one of the outputs. That's what it's there for.

 

[Tejas Thumper]

I bi-amp using a Fender Rumble combo 30 & 100 for small gigs or out in my backyard on the gazebo. The 30 is usually pointing towards me so I can hear myself over the lead and drums and the 100 is always pointed towards the audience. The sound is fine for me and my mates and I have never had any complaints from the audience. I think that sound is such a subjective creature. As in what works best for one may not be best or even good for another. IMHO the best thing for you to do is look at what others use then if you can, ask them why.

P.S. OP Keep asking questions, how else are you going to learn?

To the negative Nellys out there: There is a fine line between being a smart ass and a dumb ass..... Just be careful not to slip on that razors edge, cuz no matter which way you fall someone could get hurt.

Peace out!!!

 

[jnewmark]

That's the one thing I despise about TB. You ask a question and get sarcastic answers like "Google it!" or "we've talked about this before!". You wouldn't be asking on this forum if you already had the answer. There's a lot of holier than thou people on here...

It pays to spend a little time using the Search function, as opposed to just posting a new thread, especially concerning this topic. I have found quite a few answers to my questions using this method.