Why is mixing cab sizes a bad idea?

[Kukulkan61]

That's a leap in the other direction.


A common manufacturer does not mean that different cabs are meant to work together. They might not.

If they are the same series they work together like I mentioned examples: Mesa Subways, Fender Rumble Cabs, GKs MB series cabs but like you said for example Mesa Power house cabs might not work with the Subways..

 

[two fingers]

It's funny how often I hear that about most things I do, here on TB. IRL I don't see the same sentiment.

Being the exception doesn't mean you're wrong.

It simply means that you can't apply YOUR experiences to the entire bass universe.

 

[Brad Johnson]

This can certainly be true, it depends on the intent and skill of the designer. Some don't think it through with much detail or data.

Exactly. Or anticipate what their customer might try.

 

[Brad Johnson]

If they are the same series they work together like I mentioned examples: Mesa Subways, Fender Rumble Cabs, GKs MB series cabs but like you said for example Mesa Power house cabs might not work with the Subways..

Sorry, all cabs even from the same series may no work well together. As mentioned, because they may not have been designed to work together.

AND... they could also not be designed to work together yet give the desired results.

We seem to keep looking for simplified answers to a complex issue. When the best answer unfortunately might be...

It depends. And things don't have to be good or bad or expensive. We all don't want the same things. But few seem to reference that for some reason.


The culprit for an issue doesn't have to be the obvious thing. But that's why so many of us chase our tails endlessly searching.

 

[agedhorse]

If they are the same series they work together like I mentioned examples: Mesa Subways, Fender Rumble Cabs, GKs MB series cabs but like you said for example Mesa Power house cabs might not work with the Subways..

You have mentioned a couple of cabinets that actually might have been designed to work well together, all 3 designers posses the necessary skills to accomplish this successfully. There are others where this is definitely not the case, especially when you do the math or the measurements.

 

[Brad Johnson]

Being the exception doesn't mean you're wrong.

It simply means that you can't apply YOUR experiences to the entire bass universe.

I've been told directly that being an exception around here confuses people that others want to follow rules... by pointing out the holes in the rules. I've even been called anti-technology and anti-specs, which frankly is stupid.


Seriously, I know lots of people with similar experiences. The problem is that many don't want to hear them.

 

[GoesThump]

Hey Mod. Can we sticky this thread? I know newcomers need to know, but this subject comes up at least weekly, with the same issues and answers. Seems like with this thread title, it would be perfect.

Agreed. It would be a great idea to have a sticky for this.

GT

 

[two fingers]

I've been told directly that being an exception around here confuses people that others want to follow rules... by pointing out the holes in the rules. I've even been called anti-technology and anti-specs, which frankly is stupid.


Seriously, I know lots of people with similar experiences. The problem is that many don't want to hear them.

If I implied in any way that you are stupid, for that I apologize.

I'm thinking perhaps your geographic area may have been populated by slightly more sophisticated players than most. Around my area, all of the "conventional wisdoms" applied.

Stick a 15 under tens to round out your tone.

Underpowering speakers blows them easier than overpowering them.

The list goes on.

As a teenager I bought into many of them myself.

Anyway, before I start to ramble...

Carry on. I hope I didn't come across as argumentative or demeaning.

 

[4001]

Don't know about the later Hartkes but I had the original Guild /Hartke 115/410 stack and I drove it with an Amplified Music Products BH420 head and it sounded damn nice. Ran it one channel, no biamp. Matched extremely well IMO. Later on I saw Daryl Jones using the identical stack with Miles Davis and his didn't stuck either.


I had a guy here attempt to clown me about that rig when I mentioned it years ago, which spoke to his ignorance more than anything else.

Well, I don't "clown" anyone here...it just didn't sound that great to my ears 30 years ago and that's my opinion of my old rig.
If I wanted BIG low end from that Hartke 115 to match what the 410 was doing (closer to my ears on top of the 115) I had to Bi-Amp it so I could lower the volume of the 410 and then the 115 was almost jumping right out of the cab without producing much in the way of a big low tone when I got to a volume where I could hear it... I was more worried that it was going to fry.
I sold the cabs..
I was stupid enough to try another rig like that a few years later... I had a SWR SM-400 running a SWR 212 and a SWR 118. It was a bit better in that the 212's had better tone than the Hartke 410's did but once again, getting the 118 cab to deliver decent bottom end was a problem. I had to drive the amp way too hard.
I sold all of that stuff too.
Then.. I decided to go stereo using two amps and two cabs and wired a couple of my Jazz Basses for Fend-O-Sound, just like my Rickenbackers..... that took care of the problems of balancing out my entire tonal spectrum. I prefer having separate control of each pickup rather than mashing them into one signal and then through a bi-amped or even a one channel rig. That would strangle the tone of my basses for sure.
There is a world of difference in a true stereo rig using both pickups (if you have a two pickup bass) compared to your standard mono, one signal.
At least in my world..

 

[two fingers]

This can certainly be true, it depends on the intent and skill of the designer. Some don't think it through with much detail or data.

I was hoping you would swing by. Sure, we're jousting windmills. But it's worth the fight on occasion.

 

[Wasnex]

When I used 2 amps, I manipulated the eq’s to Mimic the function of a crossover.
A crossover is nice to have, but not necessary to biamp.
Multi=2........ 2 =bi
A bicycle has 2 wheels, a tricycle has 3.

You are free to use the term incorrectly and confuse people.

 

[zon6c-f]

I've heard that you shouldn't mix cabs, but why is this?

I would have figured that using a 1x15 and a 2x10 together would give you a warm low end from the 15 and a tight top end from the 10s, but I guess this isn't the case.

We all have opinions and like noses; they all smell. I recommend using your own ears and keep us posted!

 

[Wasnex]

...in other words, it worked perfectly for what you were hoping to achieve regardless of what specs and science and folklore might have suggested.

In this case I would say neither cab by itself was great in a live mix. So maybe that can be a situation where drastically mismatched cabs may be beneficial.

A few years later I bought a little GK RB700/112 combo. It didn't have enough headroom for some of the louder gigs I did, and also suffered a bit from mid-scooped, bedroom tone syndrome. When I needed the extra volume, I added a cab with an EV18B. The tone was not great, but I could definitely hear a lot better, and I always had plenty of volume.

Basically I take a pragmatic approach and use whatever I have. That doesn't necessarily mean I think mixing random boxes is the way to get the best results. Quite the opposite actually.

 

[Slevage]

This is not in the context of the industry definition.

I emphasize this difference because it's a common source of confusion.

My response was in reference to the OP, not the industry.

 

[Slevage]

You are free to use the term incorrectly and

My response was to the OP and not an industry standard.
It is a correct usage of the word when taken in context.

 

[juancaminos]

Some of us are not rich musicians with tech's on the payroll. We are hobbyists who love what we do and like to experiement with what we have or what we can aquire easily. We buy, sell and trade to keep things in our expense budget which is a major part of the hobby in itself. We like to talk about it and we like to hear from others about it. There are so many things that go with this hobby of ours like instruments, amps, speakers, wireless systems, attires, BL, wives, the list goes on.

As it relates to this thread My Eden 8ohm 4X10 XLT has been my number one choice for many years. But like everyone else I want to experiement. So I bought an Eden 8 ohm 2X10. I thought I would get my speaker sound up higher (closer to my ears), run my amp at it full potential (4ohms) and look bad A$$ while doing it. Well it didn't sound good. As it turns out the 2X10 was being over powered. This doesn't happen when I combine my Line 6 400 Pro 2X10 combo with the 4X10 so I was confused. As a hobbyist I have no idea why. So now I'd like to try and Eden 2X12 (or any brand for that matter) combined with the 4X10 or 2X10 but I don't have $800 lying around (I'm trying to save for a Fretless P build). So I think "hey I know how about the guys and gals at TB, I wonder what they have experienced with something like this"? Where else can I get so many people who love this hobby as much or more than I do together in one setting. But arguments ensue...

Now I'm thinking that since I have several Crown, QSC and the B word power amps laying around I can experiement with those...I learned this from TB. That's how it should be.

 

[ThisBass]

If I wanted BIG low end from that Hartke 115 to match what the 410 was doing (closer to my ears on top of the 115) I had to Bi-Amp it so I could lower the volume of the 410

IME a 115 is not meant to add BIG low end to a 410. If proper designed the 115 adds a rather "subtile" low end extension to the total sound.

and then the 115 was almost jumping right out of the cab without producing much in the way of a big low tone when I got to a volume where I could hear it...

I very guess wrong expectations to the task.
I think you experienced "the hard way" that this combination is not your cup of tea thus not suited to meet your personal sound goals

I was more worried that it was going to fry.

A HPF would have helped a lot to protect the loudspeaker from transient (sub) noise. The artifact is noticeable as "random" large cone excursions which does produce absolutely nothing except "chuffing" .

 

[leonard]

Hey Mod. Can we sticky this thread? I know newcomers need to know, but this subject comes up at least weekly, with the same issues and answers. Seems like with this thread title, it would be perfect.

This. And a another sticky about P vs. J.

Markbass says that some of their cabs can be mixed.

 

[ThisBass]

I know that the 410+115 cab combination is the most hated combination on TB forum

Deltalite II 2510 410 cab (yellow) versus Deltalite II 2515 115 cab (white)

cone excursion for the 410 cab 500 watts input power

cone excursion for the 115 cab 250 watts input power

In total this means that the 410 cab would handle mechanical wise "more power" but the benefit of headroom versus the 115 cab was only +3dB

 

[4001]

I think you experienced "the hard way" that this combination is not your cup of tea thus not suited to meet your personal sound goals.

Yup. Sometimes that's the only way. You can't get a lot of experience with the gear at the store and after awhile, I found out, the hard way,.. that I made a mistake.
No problem though as that was long ago and a few rigs later I now have something I am very pleased with.