Why is mixing cab sizes a bad idea?

[buldog5151bass]

Hey Mod. Can we sticky this thread? I know newcomers need to know, but this subject comes up at least weekly, with the same issues and answers. Seems like with this thread title, it would be perfect.

 

[Coolhandjjl]

Mixing cabs started because people falsely assumed:

• All 10’s were faster (whatever that means), but couldn’t go low enough.
• All 15’s were warm (whatever that means) and low, but couldn’t articulate well enough.
• To get the best response possible, you would need both.

All three are false statements, ergo mixing cabs was based on bad intel from the get go.

 

[dawind99]

I did search but all I found was "it's a terrible idea" but never why or examples from people who have tried it. I would try myself but i don't have the cabs, or the momey to waste on a sound I might not like.

It's not a bad idea at all. (my opinion) It provides you with a modular set up that gives you flexibility on your gigs if you don't need two cabs. And it does provide a different voice. The caveat: impedance matching, power handling, sensitivity matching, and voice coil alignment.

 

[nilorius]

This is A to Z. You start from A - that is wrong. You should start to combine the cabs with the tone you like, feel and want, then the other stuff like weight size and design. If you are sure 2 different cabs from different brands will give you what you want - do it. But feel yourself a fool if it doesn't happen.

 

[Keger Jupit]

Oddly enough, plenty of bass players are against actually trying things for themselves. So they repeat rigid rules. More power to them but it's not how I'd choose to go through life, closed off.

Mixing cabs can work. No matter what they say. Operative word being "can".

When you're faced with a "rule" like this, consider the source. I'd be willing to bet that most are simply repeating what they've read, with little to no practical experience behind it.

And yeah, you're damned if you do and damned if you don't if you dare even ask. That's just part of the silliness. And over the years I've even been asked not to rock the boat by describing several mixed cab rigs that worked out great for me professionally over the years. People refuse to understand that there is no single gig situation and focus only on what could go wrong, not what could go right.

My favorite is when people are admonished not to even try cabs together that they already own... buy what the "experts" think you should buy.

Yeah, I agree. Try it for yourself. I've had great luck mixing cabs. Like Wasnex, I had an SWR Redhead, but I ran a Son of Bertha underneath it, so 2x10, 1x15, 450 watts @ 4ohm. It was glorious, I loved that rig. Another example would be my old early Genz-Benz 500W head with an Eden 2x10XLT & an Ampeg 4x10HLT. Not an example of mismatched drivers, but of mismatched companies. But...
I've also had one or two wretched results over the years. I won't throw any company's under the bus, but I will say that IME, my favorite results came when I used different types of cabs from the same company.
Bottom line: Trust your ears...to h#ll with what other people think. Life's to short to be influenced by snobbery or slavish adherence to some "established" set of rules. I'd warn against throwing the "established" rules out, just out of spite, but breathe deep & trust your ears...

 

[Coolhandjjl]

If you want to add a second to your rig, you should consider these questions:

1- Do I just want more SPL, ie louder?

OR

2- Am I unsatisfied with the tone of my present cab and want to change the voicing by adding in a different cab?


If No.1 is yes, add a second cab of the same. Easy enough.

If No.2 is yes, roll the dice. It will be an expensive and time consuming venture. Lots of experimentation needed as it might not work just as easily as it might, and you have to start all over again.

If you are a tinkerer, and have lots of time & money on your hands, go for it! But if you’re like most, best to just get a cab whose sound you are satisfied with, and if later you need more SPL in some situations, get a second one.

 

[Brad Johnson]

I had those Hartke cabinets for a short while...the 410 and the 115. Will Lee used that combination on Late Night so I figured that would be good.... (how stupid I was not thinking he was going direct anyways) and it was anything but good.
The 410 always overpowered the 115 and there was never enough bottom end. I heard that people left and right were blowing the 115 and since I was never happy with the sound, I sold those before I torched mine.

Don't know about the later Hartkes but I had the original Guild /Hartke 115/410 stack and I drove it with an Amplified Music Products BH420 head and it sounded damn nice. Ran it one channel, no biamp. Matched extremely well IMO. Later on I saw Daryl Jones using the identical stack with Miles Davis and his didn't stuck either.


I had a guy here attempt to clown me about that rig when I mentioned it years ago, which spoke to his ignorance more than anything else.

 

[agedhorse]

It works for some applications. ( as using a guitar amp and basss amp for abRuc or 6 string bass.
Without the technical aspect in the OP,
Bi amping only involves the use of 2 amps. Taking the word bi-amp out of the context of the OP is the issue. here, not the technical differences

This is not in the context of the industry definition.

I emphasize this difference because it's a common source of confusion.

 

[Brad Johnson]

Yeah, I agree. Try it for yourself. I've had great luck mixing cabs. Like Wasnex, I had an SWR Redhead, but I ran a Son of Bertha underneath it, so 2x10, 1x15, 450 watts @ 4ohm. It was glorious, I loved that rig. Another example would be my old early Genz-Benz 500W head with an Eden 2x10XLT & an Ampeg 4x10HLT. Not an example of mismatched drivers, but of mismatched companies. But...
I've also had one or two wretched results over the years. I won't throw any company's under the bus, but I will say that IME, my favorite results came when I used different types of cabs from the same company.
Bottom line: Trust your ears...to h#ll with what other people think. Life's to short to be influenced by snobbery or slavish adherence to some "established" set of rules. I'd warn against throwing the "established" rules out, just out of spite, but breathe deep & trust your ears...

Yeah, that's why we have them.

 

[Kukulkan61]

It’s like agedhorse said, it depends on how they are engineered brand wise and construction wise, I believe if you stick to the same brand and model series mixing and matching isn’t a problem, in fact they are made to work and compliment each other like this!!

 

[Brad Johnson]

If you want to add a second to your rig, you should consider these questions:

1- Do I just want more SPL, ie louder?

OR

2- Am I unsatisfied with the tone of my present cab and want to change the voicing by adding in a different cab?


If No.1 is yes, add a second cab of the same. Easy enough.

If No.2 is yes, roll the dice. It will be an expensive and time consuming venture. Lots of experimentation needed. Best to just get a cab whose sound you are satisfied with, and if later you need more SPL in some situations, get a second one.

You could also be satisfied but want to try different things.

I've been satisfied with every rig I've used since the late 80's. But that doesn't mean I could like something different as much or even more.

 

[Brad Johnson]

View attachment 3334656 It’s like agedhorse said, it depends on how they are engineered brand wise and construction wise, I believe if you stick to the same brand and model series mixing and matching isn’t a problem, in fact they are made to work and compliment each other like this!!

That's a leap in the other direction.


A common manufacturer does not mean that different cabs are meant to work together. They might not.

 

[Brad Johnson]

Bass cabs are much more complicated than driver size. It's all about physics (not all of which I fully understand myself).

Here's what I do know.

1) Driver (speaker) size alone has little to nothing to do with how boomy or bright a cab will sound. The same cab won't necessarily sound brighter with tens in it than it will sound with a 15. That's a myth. Don't buy into it. A 410 cab can be tuned to be very boomy and a 15" cab can sound very bright.

2) Phase cancellation CAN occur when dealing with cabs that aren't designed to work together. This means that two cabs will literally sound thinner and worse than either of them alone. Cabs CAN work well together if a) they are designed to do so (like Mesa Subway cabs for instance) or b) you just happen to get lucky. But, if you're going with "b", it's a crapshoot. A GK 15 and a Carvin 210 might sound glorious together. They may also sound like garbage together.

3) Piwer distribution. Much like the myth that 15s are more boomy sounding, there's also a myth that they can handle a ton more power than smaller speakers. This is also false. So, if you stack a 4 ohm 410 and a 4 ohm 115 cab under a 1,000 head, that 15 is gonna get hit with 500 ways right by itself (if you get crazy and crank it). That sucker is gonna a blow.

Short version. It isn't AUTOMATICALLY a horrible idea to mix cabs. But it MOST LIKELY is.

I haven't noticed a preponderance towards that. In fact most of the pairings I've tried and gigged have worked fine. It helps to be using higher quality amps and cabs... and understanding the amplification process on general.

 

[Brad Johnson]

I think this is the crux of it. I fully endorse experimentation; it was my former profession. However, accumulating as much knowledge as possible before the the experiment is paramount - it'll save you grief and money. And that is JRA's second point, it really, really helps to have relatively deep pockets.

Unless you buy used. Or try your friends cab with yours. Etc.

 

[Brad Johnson]

Mixing cabs started because people falsely assumed:

• All 10’s were faster (whatever that means), but couldn’t go low enough.
• All 15’s were warm (whatever that means) and low, but couldn’t articulate well enough.
• To get the best response possible, you would need both.

All three are false statements, ergo mixing cabs was based on bad intel from the get go.

I disagree. For many that was not why they tried it.

 

[Brad Johnson]

Just use your ears.
Most concerts appear to have different cabinet sizes.
You should avoid mixing cabinet size if you believe everything you see on internet.

And that's the truth.

 

[two fingers]

Honestly, you are the exception rather than the rule.

The conventional wisdom was that 15s were more boomy ..... went "lower".... than tens.

And the vast majority of players haven't been combining high end cabs with your obvious knowledge of "the amplification process".

I haven't noticed a preponderance towards that. In fact most of the pairings I've tried and gigged have worked fine. It helps to be using higher quality amps and cabs... and understanding the amplification process on general.

I disagree. For many that was not why they tried it.

 

[two fingers]

Honestly, you are the exception rather than the rule.

The conventional wisdom was that 15s were more boomy ..... went "lower".... than tens.

And the vast majority of players haven't been combining high end cabs with your obvious knowledge of "the amplification process".

I haven't noticed a preponderance towards that. In fact most of the pairings I've tried and gigged have worked fine. It helps to be using higher quality amps and cabs... and understanding the amplification process on general.

I disagree. For many that was not why they tried it.

 

[Brad Johnson]

If you want to add a second to your rig, you should consider these questions:

1- Do I just want more SPL, ie louder?

OR

2- Am I unsatisfied with the tone of my present cab and want to change the voicing by adding in a different cab?


If No.1 is yes, add a second cab of the same. Easy enough.

If No.2 is yes, roll the dice. It will be an expensive and time consuming venture. Lots of experimentation needed as it might not work just as easily as it might, and you have to start all over again.

If you are a tinkerer, and have lots of time & money on your hands, go for it! But if you’re like most, best to just get a cab whose sound you are satisfied with, and if later you need more SPL in some situations, get a second one.

Honestly, you are the exception rather than the rule.

The conventional wisdom was that 15s were more boomy ..... went "lower".... than tens.

And the vast majority of players haven't been combining high end cabs with your obvious knowledge of "the amplification process".

It's funny how often I hear that about most things I do, here on TB. IRL I don't see the same sentiment.

Then again many people that I know knew that there was more than one kind of 15 cab so assuming they were all boomy would be ignorant. The key was to try better gear instead of making up rules based on lesser examples. For example none of my Bag Ends have been boomy. Granted, if I didnt know not to EQ them to make them boomy... I'd probably look for something else to blame.

 

[agedhorse]

That's a leap in the other direction.


A common manufacturer does not mean that different cabs are meant to work together. They might not.

This can certainly be true, it depends on the intent and skill of the designer. Some don't think it through with much detail or data.