Why is mixing cab sizes a bad idea?

[SactoBass]

I've heard that you shouldn't mix cabs, but why is this?

I would have figured that using a 1x15 and a 2x10 together would give you a warm low end from the 15 and a tight top end from the 10s, but I guess this isn't the case.

The only thing speaker diameter tells you is how big around the speaker is. Whenever someone falls into the 1970's way of thinking that larger speakers means more lows, I simply refer them to the Acme cabs with 10" speakers that provides more lows than just about any 15" speaker on the planet.

And it's not just the speaker to consider. The speaker is only one piece of the cab puzzle. It's how the entire cab and speaker is designed that determines the degree of "warmth" and amount of "lows."

 

[agedhorse]

Wait a minute, limiters certainly do help protect speakers from mechanical damage.

It's pretty easy to achieve an attack time of 1mSec with a "conventional" analog limiter. That's 1/10th of a cycle at 100HZ.

 

[Wasnex]

Wait a minute, limiters certainly do help protect speakers from mechanical damage.

It's pretty easy to achieve an attack time of 1mSec with a "conventional" analog limiter. That's 1/10th of a cycle at 100HZ.

The ART TransY FET Compressor/Limiter lists minimum attack time at 0.5mSec with ∞:1 ratio. Street price is $400.

I was under the impression that analog limiters do mitigate massive signal spikes that could cause mechanical damage, but I thought they do not offer absolute protection. Is the wrong?

 

[agedhorse]

There is no such such thing as absolute protection any more than there's a perfect bass player.

 

[maxifunk]

I use this Invalid Link Removed with this Invalid Link Removed for years love it sounds great to me!

 

[JRA]

Why is mixing cab sizes a bad idea?
it's not, automatically:
it's a bad idea = if you don't like gambling and hate to lose - or - you're just guessing and you can't afford the 'experimentation'!
it's a great idea = if you gamble a lot and win - or - you know what you're doing and you have all of the pieces/parts to do it!

but it's always at least a bit of a gamble because: pairing any two cabinets (no matter what they are!) creates a new system --- and that new system could be the 'cat's meow' or it could be the cat's litter box!* --- depending on so many other variables.





* my homage to the cat threads.

 

[Outbush]

I bought an EA doubler and a Wizzy 10 which was great for eub but lacked depth for electric. I added a Wizzy 12 MLine and reckon the 2 cabs complement each other really well. It’s a 2 ohm load and the 10” is 250w whilst the 12” is 200 so i’m very carefull. I’s rather not mix like this but finances dictate and gigs are smaller - and they do sound great together...

 

[Socobass]

Oddly enough, plenty of bass players are against actually trying things for themselves. So they repeat rigid rules. More power to them but it's not how I'd choose to go through life, closed off.

Mixing cabs can work. No matter what they say. Operative word being "can".

When you're faced with a "rule" like this, consider the source. I'd be willing to bet that most are simply repeating what they've read, with little to no practical experience behind it.

And yeah, you're damned if you do and damned if you don't if you dare even ask. That's just part of the silliness. And over the years I've even been asked not to rock the boat by describing several mixed cab rigs that worked out great for me professionally over the years. People refuse to understand that there is no single gig situation and focus only on what could go wrong, not what could go right.

My favorite is when people are admonished not to even try cabs together that they already own... buy what the "experts" think you should buy.

I support this post!

 

[bassballs27]

Why is mixing cab sizes a bad idea?
it's not, automatically:
it's a bad idea = if you don't like gambling and hate to lose - or - you're just guessing and you can't afford the 'experimentation'!
it's a great idea = if you gamble a lot and win - or - you know what you're doing and you have all of the pieces/parts to do it!

but it's always at least a bit of a gamble because: pairing any two cabinets (no matter what they are!) creates a new system --- and that new system could be the 'cat's meow' or it could be the cat's litter box!* --- depending on so many other variables.





* my homage to the cat threads.

Great reply!

To the OP:

Threads like these always come up because everyone is allowed to have their own experience.
And of course, it's tough to ask someone else given all the variables if you will like it! Hahaha
You HAVE to try it for yourself and get your own opinion.....that's the golden rule
But I'm suggesting, never try just once. Try multiple situations, different brands of speaker cabinets, etc.

There was a man that was good at learning stuff and consulted books every time.
He wanted to fix his car, so he got a book for that....and fixed his car.
He wanted to fix his house, so he got a book for that...and fixed his house.
But then he wanted to learn how to swim, got a book for it.....and drown!
Now why did he drown? Because he needed someone with experience to see what he was going wrong!!!

People don't give out experience for free for the most part. We try doing it in text form, but it doesn't always come across effectively.

My experience? I used to own one Eden 410XLT, one 410XST, one 115XLT, and one 210XLT for about 12 years.
All were rated at 8 ohms. They were paired with a rack system which consisted of a QSC PLX 2402 and an Eden Navigator WP100 preamp. Now the amazing thing here is.....the QSC has two channels, like having two different amplifiers paired to one preamp. And guess what you can do with this configuration? Turn the volume down on one of the cabinets just so you can see what you're missing! You can't do that by paralleling two cabinets through bass head. It simply doesn't work. So, I've had my fun with mixing cabs and my conclusion, I don't do it anymore. I don't even like using cabinets that are exactly the same as much either. I prefer working with ONE cabinet whether it be big or small.

I know others have mentioned frequency response as being an issue with cabinets with different driver configurations. That's definitely true. Even by stacking the cabinets in various formats (the 1x15 on top or and 210 on the bottom or the 115 on the bottom and 210 on top....or even placing them side by side) you can somewhat hear what each cabinet is doing or not doing. I'll tell you right now....what I found with my Eden cabinets is when running the 410's or 210 on top of the 115....it sounded good....but I knew the 115 wasn't adding what the 410 or 210 was definitely didn't sound EVEN to me. Meaning, the 410 or 210 sounded perceivably louder even when both volume knobs were the same. And I knew I was getting a different output from either.

 

[lfmn16]

I did search but all I found was "it's a terrible idea" but never why or examples from people who have tried it. I would try myself but i don't have the cabs, or the momey to waste on a sound I might not like.

You didn’t search very hard.

 

[Slevage]

Most consider an active crossover an essential element in a biamp rig.



I would call this multi-amping. I used to multi-amp my Ric 4001 with Ric-O-Sound. A few months later, I bought a crossover and started biamping. I used the same amps.

When I used 2 amps, I manipulated the eq’s to Mimic the function of a crossover.
A crossover is nice to have, but not necessary to biamp.
Multi=2........ 2 =bi
A bicycle has 2 wheels, a tricycle has 3.

 

[okcrum]

The ART TransY FET Compressor/Limiter lists minimum attack time at 0.5mSec with ∞:1 ratio. Street price is $400.

I was under the impression that analog limiters do mitigate massive signal spikes that could cause mechanical damage, but I thought they do not offer absolute protection. Is the wrong?

I had to put a homebrew LED/photoresistor limiter on our ancient touring PA (Phase Linear 700 + 4x Bose 800 cabs) to keep from popping those 5" drivers. PA was 5 vocals only - small, heavy, and loud. It was plenty fast enough to save drivers, something like 100 us full range.

 

[Brad Johnson]

meant as supplement, different efficience does not mean the "system" was different. In easiest case it means nothing but different cone surface

If I'm understanding your point, here is another one: identical cone surface could have different efficiencies.

 

[Brad Johnson]

When I used 2 amps, I manipulated the eq’s to Mimic the function of a crossover.
A crossover is nice to have, but not necessary to biamp.
Multi=2........ 2 =bi
A bicycle has 2 wheels, a tricycle has 3.

Exactly.

 

[4001]

I had those Hartke cabinets for a short while...the 410 and the 115. Will Lee used that combination on Late Night so I figured that would be good.... (how stupid I was not thinking he was going direct anyways) and it was anything but good.
The 410 always overpowered the 115 and there was never enough bottom end. I heard that people left and right were blowing the 115 and since I was never happy with the sound, I sold those before I torched mine.

 

[4001]

You can bi-amp with two combos if you manipulate the preamp/ eq sections.
Bi-amp literally means “ two amps”.
A cross over is best, but not required.

I used to play 6 string bass and had great results using a guitar combo and a small bass amp along with an A or B / A + B pedal.
I think Chris Squier did something similar with his Ric in the early days.

Sorry.. Squire.
R.I.P. Chris.

 

[agedhorse]

When I used 2 amps, I manipulated the eq’s to Mimic the function of a crossover.
A crossover is nice to have, but not necessary to biamp.
Multi=2........ 2 =bi
A bicycle has 2 wheels, a tricycle has 3.

BiAmp, in the common understanding and usage of the term, involves a crossover before the amp.

Using an eq to "mimic" a crossover is a poor approximation for a couple of reasons, the filter is not shelving, the maximum attenuation is low and the slope is pretty low on a typical graphic eq.

 

[jnewmark]

I think the only thing you can say for sure on this over posted topic is that hooking up a 410 with a 115, thinking that all the lows will go to the 115, and the mids and highs will go to the 410 automatically with your typical bass amp, i.e. not bi-ampable, is not going to work. Other than that, its a can of worms unless the designer of those cabs designed them to work together.

 

[Haroldo]

Why is mixing cab sizes a bad idea?
it's not, automatically:
it's a bad idea = if you don't like gambling and hate to lose - or - you're just guessing and you can't afford the 'experimentation'!
it's a great idea = if you gamble a lot and win - or - you know what you're doing and you have all of the pieces/parts to do it!

but it's always at least a bit of a gamble because: pairing any two cabinets (no matter what they are!) creates a new system --- and that new system could be the 'cat's meow' or it could be the cat's litter box!* --- depending on so many other variables. t

* my homage to the cat threads.

I think this is the crux of it. I fully endorse experimentation; it was my former profession. However, accumulating as much knowledge as possible before the the experiment is paramount - it'll save you grief and money. And that is JRA's second point, it really, really helps to have relatively deep pockets.

 

[Slevage]

BiAmp, in the common understanding and usage of the term, involves a crossover before the amp.

Using an eq to "mimic" a crossover is a poor approximation for a couple of reasons, the filter is not shelving, the maximum attenuation is low and the slope is pretty low on a typical graphic eq.

It works for some applications. ( as using a guitar amp and basss amp for abRuc or 6 string bass.
Without the technical aspect in the OP,
Bi amping only involves the use of 2 amps. Taking the word bi-amp out of the context of the OP is the issue. here, not the technical differences