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Why is modern pop music so terrible?

You like RHCP and Jane's addiction and those lyrics make you cringe?
To each their own I guess.
Like. A mullatto,an albino , a mosquito , my libido " is the work of a genius. Honestly I think Cobains lyrics are total gibberish that are like a rosach test. They are pretty meaningless so in a combination of projection of what you want them to mean gets mixed with nostalgia making you think that they are better than they are. Combine that with all of the hype surrounding it,and people's silly paranoid beliefs about how we shouldn't speak ill of the dead and all of a sudden a mediocre hack gets elevated to genius.

I bet you have Radio Shack speakers in your amp too.

C/S,
Rev J
 
Sorry, I haven't read this entire thread, but I was thinking...
I agree with the person who said that while "the good music is out there-- you just have to look for it", that's the whole point: in the olden days (let's say 1964-1974) you didn't have to look for it. I grew up with New York City's WABC-AM top 40 radio. Obviously, without the internet, satellite radio, etc., everything-- the good and the bad-- was squeezed through this one outlet. If I turned it on and they were playing, say, the latest muzak single from Percy Faith or bubblegum by the Archies, I knew that if I waited for a mere 3 minutes there was an excellent chance that I'd hear "Penny Lane", "Time is Tight", "Dance to the Music", "Like a Rolling Stone" (all six-plus minutes of it) or, a bit later, "Roundabout" or "Hocus Pocus."
Let's do a head-to-head comparison of that most commercial outlet with today's version: Billboard's Hot 100-based FM radio. Today, you would never hear something like "Hocus Pocus" (a wacky instrumental with a wordless vocal and virtuosic playing), nor social commentary over six minutes long.
Since both outlets were and are chart-based, it comes down to the consumers. Maybe most people simply do prefer background music and adolescent dance music, and everyone else has scattered to smaller outlets which cater to their niche tastes.
It just occurred to me: maybe today's Hot 100 listeners are the descendants of the people who would sit through "Penny Lane" for three minutes hoping to next hear the Archies. :D
 
Like. A mullatto,an albino , a mosquito , my libido " is the work of a genius. Honestly I think Cobains lyrics are total gibberish that are like a rosach test. They are pretty meaningless so in a combination of projection of what you want them to mean gets mixed with nostalgia making you think that they are better than they are. Combine that with all of the hype surrounding it,and people's silly paranoid beliefs about how we shouldn't speak ill of the dead and all of a sudden a mediocre hack gets elevated to genius.

I bet you have Radio Shack speakers in your amp too.

C/S,
Rev J
He wear no shoeshine, he's got toe-jam football
He got monkey finger, he shoot Coca-Cola

This from apparently the most heralded songwriters in pop music.
 
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He wear no shoeshine, he's got toe-jam football
He got monkey finger, he shoot Coca-Cola

This from apparently the most heralded songwriters in pop music.
Ha ha - that is exactly the first thought that came to my mind while reading that post. Although I do feel lennon/Mac are extremely good writers, Come Together never did it for me.

This thread has gone a bit sideways but with a topic like that I suppose it had to.
 
Like. A mullatto,an albino , a mosquito , my libido " is the work of a genius. Honestly I think Cobains lyrics are total gibberish that are like a rosach test. They are pretty meaningless so in a combination of projection of what you want them to mean gets mixed with nostalgia making you think that they are better than they are. Combine that with all of the hype surrounding it,and people's silly paranoid beliefs about how we shouldn't speak ill of the dead and all of a sudden a mediocre hack gets elevated to genius.

I bet you have Radio Shack speakers in your amp too.

C/S,
Rev J

Just seems odd that most of the bands you listed as acceptable were bands that played the same shows to the same people and had the same flaws as Nirvana. It's like protesting the corporate blandness of Journey by listening to Foreigner. It's funny to me. When you said he couldn't write or sing I expected you to bring up someone who could really sing like Chris Cornell. Instead it's Perry Farrell and Anthony Kiedis. Two people who arguably sang worse and wrote some bad lines as well.
 
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Like. A mullatto,an albino , a mosquito , my libido " is the work of a genius. Honestly I think Cobains lyrics are total gibberish that are like a rosach test. They are pretty meaningless so in a combination of projection of what you want them to mean gets mixed with nostalgia making you think that they are better than they are. Combine that with all of the hype surrounding it,and people's silly paranoid beliefs about how we shouldn't speak ill of the dead and all of a sudden a mediocre hack gets elevated to genius.

I bet you have Radio Shack speakers in your amp too.

C/S,
Rev J
Musicians writing nonsense lyrics (or what seem like nonsense lyrics) are a time honored tradition. You can't tell me that everything the Beatles, Bob Dylan, or the Doors always made sense.
 
Ha ha - that is exactly the first thought that came to my mind while reading that post. Although I do feel lennon/Mac are extremely good writers, Come Together never did it for me.

This thread has gone a bit sideways but with a topic like that I suppose it had to.
Yes and no.
The premise of the OP is really based on familiarity bias. The irony is that the guy in the video disparages familiarity (repeating a song over and over again today) while really push the idea that older music is better (repeating a song over and over again for decades.)
People like to knock things they aren't comfortable with in favor of things they are. Someone might think that modern lyrics don't make sense, but they are seeing that from a very subjective POV. Much of music of the 60s and 70s sounds like drug addled gibberish to me for the same reason. It is always difficult to understand someone else's context, and THAT is something this video misses.
Unfortunately, he is dead on when it comes to the producer issue. Half a dozen middle aged white people are writing a massive amount of the music out on the radio today. Of course their will be some hegemony. But to be fair, that isn't necessarily new either. Producers have always been molding or writing material for artists.
 
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Actually I have written and analyzed music literature etc. I still think Nirvana was crap. This statement really hits a nerve with Nirvana fans and so be it.
It's interesting that I am arguing my points from a business perspective not a fans perspective. Maybe because I was listening to stuff like the Dead Kennedy's when Nirvana came out my perspective on Nirvana is different. After a couple of years of Nirvana I started listening to them more critically. That is when I stopped liking them. I grew and my tastes changed.

But lets talk business for a moment shall we.
I read a book years ago about starting your own record label (Nirvana will pop up in this tangentially in a moment). In it was a chapter on Branding using Sub Pop as an example.

Grab a copy of Bleach, Mudhoney, Mother Love Bone, and Louder than Love by Soundgarden. Don't listen to them yet. Look at the artwork the same stark black and white pictures framed the same way similar type setting, locations etc. Thumb through the booklet similar layout. Now listen to the music with a producers ears. Listen to the sound quality, the mix etc. Even though the music is vastly different the sonic qualities are similar. Ok now read the liner notes. You will notice that they all used the same photographer, the same graphic designer, the same production team, the same studio etc. That was the basis for the brand.

Hair Metal would've died if Nirvana would've come on the scene or not. At that time personally even though I loved Guns N Roses I was listening to Janes Addition, Social Distortion, Suicidal Tendencies,DRI The Red Hot Chili Peppers, Metallica, Anthrax, etc. I was wearing combat boots with cut off fatigue pants and flannel shirts 2 years before it became popular. If Nirvana didn't come along hair metal would've died on its own and nature abhorring a vacuum something else would've taken its place. And to me mumbling incoherently in E minor followed by screaming in G Major gets old pretty quickly.

C/S,
Rev J

Wow, they used a lot of the same resources? That's actually really incredible detective work. It's almost like they're all from the same area. Same city even. Well, and then there's the fact they're on the same label so there's the same connections, and most of those guys also knew each other personally. But you're right, it's probably part of an image their label was marketing because those bands are all so similar, right?

Louder than Love was partially a satirical album aimed at parts of the metal scene. Chris Cornell titled the photograph on its cover something like "obligatory angry young man" (not sure if that's exactly right, but that's tyre gist). Mother Love Bone, on the other hand, is almost like Guns 'n' Roses stylistically. Nirvana then is most like the garage band, noise rock, and underground punk scenes. Honestly, the fact they're from the same area and lyrically talked about similar themes (as in the dark side of real life) is actually just about the only similarities.

You're analysis of the lyrics and style is also brilliant, thank you. Doesn't sound at all like you simply don't like and don't understand the sounds you're hearing.
 
The OP video's point about timbre has me thinking a lot. Production quality and marketability are easy things to address. It is money, get over it.
However, the complexity of the music, and the ability to make out subtle nuances is a stylistic choice combined with a listening preference. Which means we have the most control over it, but is it a forgone conclusion?
I have a pretty broad knowledge base of music and history of it, as well as my person preferences. The arc of music seems to head towards increasingly greater extremes. In all of its various modes, Classical music carries with it a certain vibe of quaintness that never gets its hands too dirty with really raw emotions. Because the culture that created it was restrained and highly organized, the music reflects that. Classical's joy, longing, and anger is of a very socially acceptable type.
Less artistically refined folk music (or indigenous music, world music, whatever) is a little more visceral, but is still limited by the constraints of what people had handy. The defining characteristics are rustic instruments and rustic ideas told through the music. If you don't have a connection to the culture or the instruments of a "folk" then it is harder to form an emotional connection to the music.
From a position of a person that is listening to new music being produced and released today, many other musical style seem "stuck" even though it may be more complex, well performed, and artistic. Jazz has an emotion and vibe it can't shake; it is what it is. Country is the same way for me. When I listen to something from the supposed "golden age" of timbre in rock music, I hear the complexity, I hear the effort, I hear the clear production, and am still unmoved by it. My mother was a big Doobie Brothers fan (more a Michael McDonald fan really), so I grew up listening to them. Based on familiarity, I like it because it of my memories of my mother listening to something like What a Fool Believes. From an analytical POV, I seen what the OP video is talking about on many levels. All that said, beyond a moment of nostalgia, it does nothing for me. It is light and quaint. It is musically complex, but emotionally simple. (To me.)
Now let's fast forward a little to modern listeners and modern music. I'm not a pop listener at all, but I hear it because of my wife. My kids think real instruments sound old, just as I feel that keyboards (especially Moogs or Rhoades) sound old, or orchestral instruments sound old to a lot of people. They want something of their time, and in their time, things are electronic and synthetic. I find myself addicted to the sound of heavy, down tuned, distorted guitars, blistering drumming, and vocals that sound like they are about to take your head off. Why? I don't know. It isn't something I've been conditioned to like because it has zero popular exposure. Is there something in the production that has its hooks in me, like the addictive nature of sugar, fat, or salt? Maybe. Whatever it is, what I do noticed is that these more aggressive arrangement leave no room for subtly or a million instruments. Five are taking up the entire mix. I can't say if it is good or bad. Maybe I'm a case study for music that works on people in a purposeful way. Or perhaps it is merely an emotional connection, and the connections people want from their music changes with their culture.
Does culture drive music, or does music drive culture. Is "terrible" pop a result of profits and laziness, or is it a reflection of the times we live in? Is it maybe not the music that is terrible, but the culture that makes and consumes it?
 
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The OP video's point about timbre has me thinking a lot. Production quality and marketability are easy things to address. It is money, get over it.
However, the complexity of the music, and the ability to make out subtle nuances is a stylistic choice combined with a listening preference. Which means we have the most control over it, but is it a forgone conclusion?
I have a pretty broad knowledge base of music and history of it, as well as my person preferences. The arc of music seems to head towards increasingly greater extremes. In all of its various modes, Classical music carries with it a certain vibe of quaintness that never gets its hands too dirty with really raw emotions. Because the culture that created it was restrained and highly organized, the music reflects that. Classical's joy, longing, and anger is of a very socially acceptable type.
Less artistically refined folk music (or indigenous music, world music, whatever) is a little more visceral, but is still limited by the constraints of what people had handy. The defining characteristics are rustic instruments and rustic ideas told through the music. If you don't have a connection to the culture or the instruments of a "folk" then it is harder to form an emotional connection to the music.
From a position of a person that is listening to new music being produced and released today, many other musical style seem "stuck" even though it may be more complex, well performed, and artistic. Jazz has an emotion and vibe it can't shake; it is what it is. Country is the same way for me. When I listen to something from the supposed "golden age" of timbre in rock music, I hear the complexity, I hear the effort, I hear the clear production, and am still unmoved by it. My mother was a big Doobie Brothers fan (more a Michael McDonald fan really), so I grew up listening to them. Based on familiarity, I like it because it of my memories of my mother listening to something like What a Fool Believes. From an analytical POV, I seen what the OP video is talking about on many levels. All that said, beyond a moment of nostalgia, it does nothing for me. It is light and quaint. It is musically complex, but emotionally simple. (To me.)
Now let's fast forward a little to modern listeners and modern music. I'm not a pop listener at all, but I hear it because of my wife. My kids think real instruments sound old, just as I feel that keyboards (especially Moogs or Rhoades) sound old, or orchestral instruments sound old to a lot of people. They want something of their time, and in their time, things are electronic and synthetic. I find myself addicted to the sound of heavy, down tuned, distorted guitars, blistering drumming, and vocals that sound like they are about to take your head off. Why? I don't know. It isn't something I've been conditioned to like because it has zero popular exposure. Is there something in the production that has its hooks in me, like the addictive nature of sugar, fat, or salt? Maybe. Whatever it is, what I do noticed is that these more aggressive arrangement leave no room for subtly or a million instruments. Five are taking up the entire mix. I can't say if it is good or bad. Maybe I'm a case study for music that works on people in a purposeful way. Or perhaps it is merely an emotional connection, and the connections people want from their music changes with their culture.
Does culture drive music, or does music drive culture. Is "terrible" pop a result of profits and laziness, or is it a reflection of the times we live in? Is it maybe not the music that is terrible, but the culture that makes and consumes it?
I just want to address a tiny part of your post-- the part regarding classical music. Are you referring to music from what is called the "classical" period (Mozart, Haydn, etc.) which proceeded the "romantic" period (Beethoven, Schubert, etc.)? Because if you're using "classical" to more broadly mean so-called "art" music, I disagree with your characterization that it all has a quaint or socially acceptable feel. There is a lot of 20th century classical music which is downright ugly, violent, abrasive, loud, dissonant... (And I mean all of those in a very good way!)
 
While I mostly agree with your points... I have to somewhat disagree that music as entertainment somehow lessens music as art. In the contrary, art, any sort of art can be very entertaining. Monet and his paintings, Shakespeare and his plays, Geddy Lee or whomever and their music. All great artists who entertain...

In my opinion the entertainment/art thing is a false dichotomy. I'm a medieval historian. The term "art" (from Latin ars, artis) means "skill." There was therefore no sharp distinction between who was or wasn't an "artist." There were simply degrees of skill. An apprentice stonecutter who carved out the rough shapes of granite blocks had a low level of art, but the master stonecutter who was his boss had the high levels of art to carve them features into fine shapes that looked like people. It was a continuum, not a dichotomy. To some extent the Renaissance, but then really Romanticism, introduced the notion of the inspired "artist" who had capabilities denied to mere mortals, who was practically a prophet with his vision and insight that no one else could see unless he showed them.

The rise of this romantic notion of art coincides pretty closely with the rise of industrial urban centers with ticket-buying publics, displacing the significance of older systems of elite patronage to support painters and composers. After that there were two ways you could go; produce works to appeal to the taste of the general public; or be "avant garde" and be able to say you were following your own unique muse, which only the select few (e.g. fellow artists and the wealthy elite who still practiced patronage) could appreciate. Pulling off both at the same time - being seen as an artist with your own prophetic visionary integrity while still appealing to the public's taste - was very hard to do, and only a few (like Beethoven) could manage it.

Myself, I believe in respect for craftsmen. There are a few geniuses, I admit, who have a vision for something extraordinary. But for the most part, when I hear insistence on "art" I hear so much pretentiousness and hype.
 
Regarding the criticism of Nirvana. That's not a fair assessment of anyone. You might not like the song and the lyrics, but that's just an opinion and the post seems to present it as fact. If the playing is bad i suppose there could be some valid criteria used to evaluate it but whatever - let it go. The post sounded really harsh . I'm not a fan of Nirvana but so what? People liked them, they must have done something right.

It wasn't just unfair. It was outright wrong. I didn't really like Nirvana much at the time, but was EXTREMELY grateful to them, given the cookie-cutter crap that was the rock radio mainstay in late 80s. They were NOT, as Rev J implied, a producer-driven and manufactured band. Producers got heavily behind them, yes. But both Butch Vig and Steve Albini have been clear on why they got behind them. It was because Nirvana had a sound, look, and feel they wanted to capture and produce. Period. Albini in particular looked at it as any other studio session, hired by the label. They were not in any shape or form his baby.

From Albini's mouth: "Another audience question concerned Albini's work on his most notorious project, the Nirvana In Utero sessions. The recording sessions themselves were "totally normal, it was just like any other record I've ever done. We go to the studio, we make the record, they're happy with it, they go home. After that, when the record label finally heard it, that's when it started. That's when the record label started to try and influence the band, and started to call me names. It didn't affect me on a personal level … but it did begin an ugly period when I almost went bankrupt … The core clientele eventually came back, and I lived." [Invalid or Expired Link Removed]

And no, Cobain was not a crappy songwriter. Maybe not everyone's fav. Maybe not Burt Bacharach. But he was a talented songwriter, to say the least.
 
I just want to address a tiny part of your post-- the part regarding classical music. Are you referring to music from what is called the "classical" period (Mozart, Haydn, etc.) which proceeded the "romantic" period (Beethoven, Schubert, etc.)? Because if you're using "classical" to more broadly mean so-called "art" music, I disagree with your characterization that it all has a quaint or socially acceptable feel. There is a lot of 20th century classical music which is downright ugly, violent, abrasive, loud, dissonant... (And I mean all of those in a very good way!)
I won't go as far as to say art, as music that would would find in the "classical" section of a music store. They don't differentiate between romantic, baroque, classical, or chamber music. Or Opera for that matter. I'm not going to get into the weeds on that.
 
The OP video's point about timbre has me thinking a lot. Production quality and marketability are easy things to address. It is money, get over it.
However, the complexity of the music, and the ability to make out subtle nuances is a stylistic choice combined with a listening preference. Which means we have the most control over it, but is it a forgone conclusion?
I have a pretty broad knowledge base of music and history of it, as well as my person preferences. The arc of music seems to head towards increasingly greater extremes. In all of its various modes, Classical music carries with it a certain vibe of quaintness that never gets its hands too dirty with really raw emotions. Because the culture that created it was restrained and highly organized, the music reflects that. Classical's joy, longing, and anger is of a very socially acceptable type.
Less artistically refined folk music (or indigenous music, world music, whatever) is a little more visceral, but is still limited by the constraints of what people had handy. The defining characteristics are rustic instruments and rustic ideas told through the music. If you don't have a connection to the culture or the instruments of a "folk" then it is harder to form an emotional connection to the music.
From a position of a person that is listening to new music being produced and released today, many other musical style seem "stuck" even though it may be more complex, well performed, and artistic. Jazz has an emotion and vibe it can't shake; it is what it is. Country is the same way for me. When I listen to something from the supposed "golden age" of timbre in rock music, I hear the complexity, I hear the effort, I hear the clear production, and am still unmoved by it. My mother was a big Doobie Brothers fan (more a Michael McDonald fan really), so I grew up listening to them. Based on familiarity, I like it because it of my memories of my mother listening to something like What a Fool Believes. From an analytical POV, I seen what the OP video is talking about on many levels. All that said, beyond a moment of nostalgia, it does nothing for me. It is light and quaint. It is musically complex, but emotionally simple. (To me.)
Now let's fast forward a little to modern listeners and modern music. I'm not a pop listener at all, but I hear it because of my wife. My kids think real instruments sound old, just as I feel that keyboards (especially Moogs or Rhoades) sound old, or orchestral instruments sound old to a lot of people. They want something of their time, and in their time, things are electronic and synthetic. I find myself addicted to the sound of heavy, down tuned, distorted guitars, blistering drumming, and vocals that sound like they are about to take your head off. Why? I don't know. It isn't something I've been conditioned to like because it has zero popular exposure. Is there something in the production that has its hooks in me, like the addictive nature of sugar, fat, or salt? Maybe. Whatever it is, what I do noticed is that these more aggressive arrangement leave no room for subtly or a million instruments. Five are taking up the entire mix. I can't say if it is good or bad. Maybe I'm a case study for music that works on people in a purposeful way. Or perhaps it is merely an emotional connection, and the connections people want from their music changes with their culture.
Does culture drive music, or does music drive culture. Is "terrible" pop a result of profits and laziness, or is it a reflection of the times we live in? Is it maybe not the music that is terrible, but the culture that makes and consumes it?
I think it's difficult for most music to not, in some way at least, be a reflection of the times. If you look at current pop, it suffers from the same production approach as many other products and institutions in our modern era: food, appliances, clothing, electronic devices, the public education system, etc. We have refined our production methods and our bureaucratic systems with low cost and short-term efficiency in mind. Things aren't "built to last" the way they used to be because long term durability is not something the consumer demands. A song no longer needs several layers of "events" which can be discovered along the way (many listens later) because a pop song is now, more than ever, a disposable product intended only for immediate consumption. For most people it's not even something worth owning in a physical form (which could be saying a lot, as we humans generally love to own things in physical forms).
 
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Actually I have written and analyzed music literature etc. I still think Nirvana was crap. This statement really hits a nerve with Nirvana fans and so be it.
It's interesting that I am arguing my points from a business perspective not a fans perspective. Maybe because I was listening to stuff like the Dead Kennedy's when Nirvana came out my perspective on Nirvana is different. After a couple of years of Nirvana I started listening to them more critically. That is when I stopped liking them. I grew and my tastes changed.

But lets talk business for a moment shall we.
I read a book years ago about starting your own record label (Nirvana will pop up in this tangentially in a moment). In it was a chapter on Branding using Sub Pop as an example.

Grab a copy of Bleach, Mudhoney, Mother Love Bone, and Louder than Love by Soundgarden. Don't listen to them yet. Look at the artwork the same stark black and white pictures framed the same way similar type setting, locations etc. Thumb through the booklet similar layout. Now listen to the music with a producers ears. Listen to the sound quality, the mix etc. Even though the music is vastly different the sonic qualities are similar. Ok now read the liner notes. You will notice that they all used the same photographer, the same graphic designer, the same production team, the same studio etc. That was the basis for the brand.

Hair Metal would've died if Nirvana would've come on the scene or not. At that time personally even though I loved Guns N Roses I was listening to Janes Addition, Social Distortion, Suicidal Tendencies,DRI The Red Hot Chili Peppers, Metallica, Anthrax, etc. I was wearing combat boots with cut off fatigue pants and flannel shirts 2 years before it became popular. If Nirvana didn't come along hair metal would've died on its own and nature abhorring a vacuum something else would've taken its place. And to me mumbling incoherently in E minor followed by screaming in G Major gets old pretty quickly.

C/S,
Rev J

Uh, I will give you that hair metal would have died eventually. And I will add I believe the stage was set for Nirvana to occur - right place, right time, etc... I'm really not a fan of Nirvana. I think they are meh, to be honest, in comparison to the bands you mentioned. But many of those would not have had commercial appeal unless Nirvana happened.

I don't even know where to start with the bit in Sub Pop. Typical business school study nonsense. Always analyze the true success stories as if its all some formula to be duplicated, right? Well, chance, timing, and evolution are NOT formulaic. There have been countless independent labels that have never gone anywhere. If good branding were the main barrier to their success, then Interscope likely would have never have existed. Independent labels for indie artists would have been the exception, not the norm.

All I can say is you need to seriously go rethink what Sub Pop was and how it came to be what it is now. It was a tiny, independent label in the 80s that started as a fanzine by a college student. It were artist and fan-driven, to the core. Of course they had the same photographer. Of course the sonic qualities are similar. It was because it was all on tiny budgets with no support from the larger labels and industry reps. Right place and right time? Sure. But THEY were the place to be for indie bands. The big labels certainly weren't listening to Soundgarden in 1987. Sub Pop was its own real brand. It was NOT a brand first, commodity second. It was about as truly punk and DIY as anything could have been in the late 80s.
 
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He wear no shoeshine, he's got toe-jam football
He got monkey finger, he shoot Coca-Cola

This from apparently the most heralded songwriters in pop music.

Are you unfamiliar with Jabberwocky by Lewis Carroll? It is a well respected bit of gibberish.

Trying to judge lyrics can't be done like grading an English paper. This isn't prose. The lyrics, above, fit the song they are in. They work rhythmically, and they fit within the nature of the track. I have little idea what they actually were intended to mean, but they form an image in my head and convey a feeling, and have since I heard them the first time (in the Aerosmith cover), though I don't understand why. I think this is part of what art means, at least to me. It provides a canvas which I can project upon, and it makes the experience interactive, in that sense. It doesn't need to be an instruction manual. I think I'm more offended by:
She says she loves you
And you know that can't be bad
Yes, she loves you
And you know you should be glad

This is terribly digestible pop at its finest. No room for interpretation.

I'm also reminded of this lyrical analysis:
 
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Ha ha - that is exactly the first thought that came to my mind while reading that post. Although I do feel lennon/Mac are extremely good writers, Come Together never did it for me.

This thread has gone a bit sideways but with a topic like that I suppose it had to.

Come Together is among my fav Beatles tunes because of the lyrics. Pure ear candy. Make whatever meaning you want out of it, it makes little difference. But they sound just oh so right.

Non-songwriters tend to get lost in semantics when they analyze lyrics. Sometimes it's all about the cadence and phonology.
 
Wow, they used a lot of the same resources? That's actually really incredible detective work. It's almost like they're all from the same area. Same city even. Well, and then there's the fact they're on the same label so there's the same connections, and most of those guys also knew each other personally. But you're right, it's probably part of an image their label was marketing because those bands are all so similar, right?

From a branding standpoint (as I guess he was getting at) one could argue Sub Pop capitalized on the DIYness of it all by emphasizing it, in an early South Park sort of way(?). It's not like the terms grunge or lo-fi imply polished. Maybe that's what he was getting at. I will leave it to him to clarify.

But regardless of how the label went about promoting itself and the music, it started as a true DIY endeavor. Labels like Interscope, on the other hand, were devised, restructured, and/or rebranded by major labels to handle the "underground" alternative and rap scenes.