Why is this so badly neglected

[Killing Floor]

Wow, this is a hot button issue?

Jaco didn’t need to stand in the corner behind the drums…

Let me simplify it.
If you look like you hate to be on stage maybe you do. You don’t need complex choreography to convince the audience that you like what you’re playing and want to be on stage. Have fun. Eye contact once in a while. I know, but eye contact with the drummer doesn’t count. Besides, I bet a 5 spot you can hear the drums. And don’t give me the lip about needing to stand like a mopey statue to play well. Ever see Victor Wooten? It’s ok to concentrate on your technique in the studio. On stage with very few exceptions the band is the entertainment and should behave accordingly.

 

[JohnMCA72]

Easier to pull off with amazing virtuoso musicians and a huge professional light show.

So, that means it isn't worth trying?

The band of mine that I'm most proud of is made up of mediocre talent at best, but works hard at putting on a show & has developed a large, loyal following.

 

[JohnMCA72]

I have WAY more stage presence than talent, I would love more talent.

You're stuck with the talent you've got. Stage presence, on the other hand, can be worked on & improved!

 

[JohnMCA72]

...

I had a booking agent tell me very early in my career that just walking into the room not carrying a guitar case etc the audience ought to be able to tell you're in the band just by how you're dressed...

I've been trying to convince people of this for years! Great to hear it coming from a booking agent!

Some musicians, I swear, when you see them enter the room they look like they're there to take out the trash, plunge a toilet, or mow the lawn!

 

[beatmachine pro]

i had a freind who was tall and had good looks
but he had the whole metal look
hes was really a super freindly outgoing guy
who loved to have a good time,...

he was an animal onstage, the whole show was some of the most entertaining metal
i ever worked on,
..playing for 50 people

 

[Joe Nerve]

I had a booking agent tell me very early in my career that just walking into the room not carrying a guitar case etc the audience ought to be able to tell you're in the band just by how you're dressed.

For an 80s hair band this is excellent advice. For someone today - and on a much much grander scale, I think it can be damaging...

Stage presence isn't something external, and most of us I think have been witness to that. I've seen MANY people who I thought nothing of until they stepped onto a stage and lit up the room. And I've seen just as many make buffoons of themselves standing out in the crowd before, only to become totally deflated once they hit the stage. I've known some really attractive people, too, who once in front of an audience made everyone want to leave the room. And then there's Danny Devito.

How we look and dress CAN be important and add to a show, but for a newcomer (or someone looking to develop presence) focusing on that I think is a mistake. The coolest, flashiest clothes in the world won't give someone stage presence. It'll just make them stand out. Then they either have it, or they don't. It sets high expectations, too, which is why I believe it can even be dangerous. If the focus is on you before you hit the stage, then you best live up to people's expectations. When they're expecting nothing, its far easier to wow them.

 

[beatmachine pro]

P.I.L.,...its part of your "public image" (page 10in the 'marketing manual')
the thing is i dont think people hero worship musicians anymore

so dressing like robert plant may not work for u

but if your in a hillbilly revival band better break out the overalls

 

[Ross W. Lovell]

Stage presence. Who has it, where did they get it and why is it so hard to find?

We are usually making eye contact and smiling with each other in the band, usually 10 of us.

We like playing.

It seems infectious with the audience as well.

Then again, being 1 of 10 allows far more flexibility.

 

[David McIntire]

For an 80s hair band this is excellent advice. For someone today - and on a much much grander scale, I think it can be damaging...

Stage presence isn't something external, and most of us I think have been witness to that. I've seen MANY people who I though nothing of until they stepped onto a stage and lit up the room. And I've seen just as many make buffoons of themselves standing out in the crowd before only to become totally deflated once they hit the stage. I've known some really attractive people, too, who once in front of an audience made everyone want to leave the room. And then there's Danny Devito.

How we look and dress CAN be important and add to a show, but for a newcomer (or someone looking to develop presence) focusing on that I think is a mistake. The coolest, flashiest clothes in the world won't give someone stage presence. It'll just make them stand out. Then they either have it, or they don't. It sets high expectations, too, which is why I believe it can even be dangerous. If the focus is on you before you hit the stage, then you best live up to people's expectations. When they're expecting nothing, its far easier to wow them.

Agreed. My current main act is made up of two guys who are "old pros", and two guys who have not entertained as often or as regularly as the first two. The two Younger cats have all these rules and regulations of what should be worn, etc. I have a different outlook. At first, there were some disagreements on what I wear to a gig. But, with them all dressed an me showing up as me, they now realize a bit more that it ain't JUST the clothes that make the man. My saying has always been, "If they remember what you wore, you did not play well enuff." And while no hard, fast rules apply everywhere, I use my stage presence, (generated by my absolute Happy doing what I do, NOT my stage attire), to break any rules, cuz that's who I am. They say no Blue Jeans? That's what I wear. No work boots? Sorry, I can wear those, too. None of that has ever stopped an audience from noticing me as I play. And commenting on my presence. Not my hair, clothes or shoes. And, I prefer to sneak up on folk. As I set up, folk always ask questions. What type of music we play, what time show starts, etc. I pretend to be a roadie. I never mention I am in the band. I talk the band up. Chit chat with the folk. Then, when they see me get on stage to play, they always get a kick out of the fact they had no idea I was the bass guitarist. And, they rarely forget me afterward.

I have my "rules", too. No shorts. No flip flops. And, for bigger events I do dress interestingly. Sport coat, nice pants, etc. But I'm in ROCK bands. Not wedding groups. I don't wear a tux to a ZZ Top tribute gig. I wear my bass. And whatever attire I decide to wear? Is forgotten immediately as we start playing.

 

[MrLenny1]

Bands need to work on it IMHO. Just talking to a crowd, announce
the next tune, maybe give a little history on it.

 

[Joe Nerve]

Agreed. My current main act is made up of two guys who are "old pros", and two guys who have not entertained as often or as regularly as the first two. The two Younger cats have all these rules and regulations of what should be worn, etc. I have a different outlook. At first, there were some disagreements on what I wear to a gig. But, with them all dressed an me showing up as me, they now realize a bit more that it ain't JUST the clothes that make the man. My saying has always been, "If they remember what you wore, you did not play well enuff." And while no hard, fast rules apply everywhere, I use my stage presence, (generated by my absolute Happy doing what I do, NOT my stage attire), to break any rules, cuz that's who I am. They say no Blue Jeans? That's what I wear. No work boots? Sorry, I can wear those, too. None of that has ever stopped an audience from noticing me as I play. And commenting on my presence. Not my hair, clothes or shoes. And, I prefer to sneak up on folk. As I set up, folk always ask questions. What type of music we play, what time show starts, etc. I pretend to be a roadie. I never mention I am in the band. I talk the band up. Chit chat with the folk. Then, when they see me get on stage to play, they always get a kick out of the fact they had no idea I was the bass guitarist. And, they rarely forget me afterward.

I have my "rules", too. No shorts. No flip flops. And, for bigger events I do dress interestingly. Sport coat, nice pants, etc. But I'm in ROCK bands. Not wedding groups. I don't wear a tux to a ZZ Top tribute gig. I wear my bass. And whatever attire I decide to wear? Is forgotten immediately as we start playing.

Well put. I've worn just about everything imaginable on a R&R stage. My only rule is that I have to feel "stage comfortable," in it.

Something I want to add to my last post too, and this is just a personal preference - if I'm going to dress to be noticed, nobody is going to see me before I hit the stage. I've dressed to stand out (see vid below), but when I did, always stayed backstage till showtime. Should note that I didn't just come up with these ideas. I've had lots of friends go much further in the music business than I have, and took my cues from them.

Here's another vid. FWIW, I don't think that I'm overflowing with stage presence. I am comfortable with what I've got however, given where I know I came from and how I ACTUALLY feel on stage. I don't post this stuff as a "hey look at me," humble brag kind of thing - but rather to hopefully inspire someone who isn't all that comfortable in their skin. I used to literally dry heave from nerves before getting on a stage. And I still get nervous, even after close to 2000 gigs. I don't think anyone would ever know that though, without my telling them...

I especially like the 2:50 spot here, and miss those days a lot ....

 

[David McIntire]

Well put. I've worn just about everything imaginable on a R&R stage. My only rule is that I have to feel "stage comfortable," in it.

Something I want to add to my last post too, and this is just a personal preference - if I'm going to dress to be noticed, nobody is going to see me before I hit the stage. I've dressed to stand out (see vid below), but when I did, always stayed backstage till showtime. Should note that I didn't just come up with these ideas. I've had lots of friends go much further in the music business than I have, and took my cues from them.

Here's another vid. FWIW, I don't think that I'm overflowing with stage presence. I am comfortable with what I've got however, given where I know I came from and how I ACTUALLY feel on stage. I don't post this stuff as a "hey look at me," humble brag kind of thing - but rather to hopefully inspire someone who isn't all that comfortable in their skin. I used to literally dry heave from nerves before getting on a stage. And I still get nervous, even after close to 2000 gigs. I don't think anyone would ever know that though, without my telling them...

I especially like the 2:50 spot here, and miss those days a lot ....

I watched every second of that video. Awesome!! And, I agree wit every word you wrote. If I dress for a show, no one sees me in it before I hit the stage. In fact, I still set up our band's gear, but wear a totally different set of work clothes. Once that is done, I change, and don't re appear til I play. Going a bit further, I change my clothes at set breaks. Two or three looks a night.

Absolutely NO ego in my words. I hope folk are inspired. Inspired to be themselves, whomever that may be. Some folk are Bootsy Collins. Some are Steve Harris. Some are Entwistle. Be who you are. Own it! I pattern much of my presence on guys I see play in the big leagues. I don't want to BE those guys, I like me. But what they do does inspire the audience. As you illustrated beautifully with your clip. The audience is having fun with your band. It would be hard not to. You guys are fantastic.

I'm just a local guy, in a local cover band. I've not really done major shows. But, I pretend every show is huge. And bein happy or being mad IS a choice. Lotsa guys look at corner bars as beneath them. That shows. For me, every person in every venue deserves my best. My happy. So I try to look less at my surroundings, and more at who is surrounding me.

Thankya, Joe. Yer spot on in what yer sayin. At least for me you are. And your band just kills it.

 

[3Liter]

There's a local guy where I live. Probably does some kind of labor type work. Long bushy beard, keys on his belt kind of guy. Can play circles around me.

He played at a restaurant that if 50 people were in there would be un comfortable. He set up wearing some crap looking work shirt and jeans. At "show time" had on a whole different shirt (like one of those embroidered deals). Looked the rock part.


In life you can wear whatever you want. But some roles we expect more of. The military wears a uniform, lawyers wear suits in court. Can you do most of your job without those things? Of course. But the look and presence goes the extra mile.

I'm an average player at best. I have adopted the smile when I crap it up or it's not going as I'd like. Every seen a politician get asked a question they dont want? Same deal. But it looks more pleasent than the agony of defeat.

Dressing for a gig is kind of fun anyhow. I can't wear a black button down shirt with some shiny bits to my office job.

 

[frnjplayer]

The previous posts go a long way to help you getting the most of what you've got. I think the whole "appear to enjoy what you're doing" is probably the single most useful step you can take. Knowing the material well enough that you can focus on the enjoyment becomes a requirement.
That said:
Stage presence is something you have.......or not. Go to a live play and you may find yorself watching one person everytime they come on stage even if they aren't the lead actor. Clapton and Knopfler don't have a lot of smiles or movement in their shows but they still own the stage. Everyone can practice to get the most out of their abilities as a band you will appear better if your front person has "it".

 

[JohnMCA72]

...

I had a booking agent tell me very early in my career that just walking into the room not carrying a guitar case etc the audience ought to be able to tell you're in the band just by how you're dressed...

It doesn't necessarily take much. Just a step above the crowd average can be plenty. Sometimes just wearing a different type of cap - such as a "newsboy" when everybody else has logo-ed "gimme'" caps, for instance - can show just a little different attitude, enough to ID who's in the band. No need to go all Steven Tyler, unless that's part of the show (ie. tribute, etc.). I think a good rule of thumb for all occasions is to dress to show respect to your audience, whether that's a bar crowd, a job interviewer, or the Pope.

Same thing with being on stage. There's a whole range between jumping around like a monkey on a hot griddle & standing in a dark corner, staring at your shoes. It doesn't have to be one extreme or the other.

 

[EdO.]

It doesn't necessarily take much. Just a step above the crowd average can be plenty. Sometimes just wearing a different type of cap - such as a "newsboy" when everybody else has logo-ed "gimme'" caps, for instance - can show just a little different attitude, enough to ID who's in the band. No need to go all Steven Tyler, unless that's part of the show (ie. tribute, etc.). I think a good rule of thumb for all occasions is to dress to show respect to your audience, whether that's a bar crowd, a job interviewer, or the Pope.

Same thing with being on stage. There's a whole range between jumping around like a monkey on a hot griddle & standing in a dark corner, staring at your shoes. It doesn't have to be one extreme or the other.

Exactly. You don't have to be over the top, a little tasteful style goes a long way. Dress better than your audience within reasonable parameters and appropriately for the venue. It makes a difference in how you're perceived by not only the audience but (perhaps even more importantly) by whoever hired and is paying you, assuming you want to impress them enough to get rebooked. It's a more significant part of what makes a band appear to an entertainment buyer to be "professionally minded " than many seem to appreciate.

If you're playing to a rocker crowd dress more rocker than the audience, or at least as much so. If you're playing a lounge dress accordingly. It ain't rocket science. Go see bands in your area playing similar styles as your group that stay booked up and draw a following, see how they dress. The vast majority of the time it's not jeans and tee shirts.

 

[lildrgn]

I talked with a bandmate after our show last night. He was saying we need to "do less" and I didn't know what he meant. We played pretty well and I was happy with what we did, so I wanted more clarity.

He didn't want to be "that guy" as he'd had the same comment made to him in the past, but he thought my energy on stage was maybe a little *too* much. He kept saying how he wants me to be me, but he also felt that we shouldn't be so visceral and visual, but let the music do the talking.

I related my high school days, watching videos of RCHP and Flea and PJ with Jeff Ament and how their jumping around really seemed odd, when most everyone else was less animated. I thought it was out of balance at times.

Fast forward to last night and I saw where my bandmate was coming from. Though my energy is not manufactured, but is part of how I feel when I play, I could see his point of view. We all have points in our music where it naturally peaks and that, of course, elevates my energy, as well as the band's.

I told my mate that the constructive comments were appreciated; the clarity helps and the weeks of "we need to do less" finally has some meaning behind it. It's not like it's my first gig; I've been doing this for years and I have always been very energetic. People last night were saying how much they appreciated it and the positivity - I definitely look like I enjoy being out there. However, I can be a little less "on" without it making me feel like I'm stifling things.

(it didn't help that last night's "stage" is a flatbed truck outside the club. It is a little bouncy and I'll admit that I was trying to bounce it bit... )

 

[PhatBottomBass1]

I'm not 100% sure on this, but expect that Oliver Stone did his homework for "the Doors"...

Jim Morrison appearently preferred singing with his back to the audience when they started gigging.

Look what happened when he turned around...

That's STAGE PRESENCE!

 

[lildrgn]

I talked with a bandmate after our show last night. He was saying we need to "do less" and I didn't know what he meant. We played pretty well and I was happy with what we did, so I wanted more clarity.

He didn't want to be "that guy" as he'd had the same comment made to him in the past, but he thought my energy on stage was maybe a little *too* much. He kept saying how he wants me to be me, but he also felt that we shouldn't be so visceral and visual, but let the music do the talking.

I related my high school days, watching videos of RCHP and Flea and PJ with Jeff Ament and how their jumping around really seemed odd, when most everyone else was less animated. I thought it was out of balance at times.

Fast forward to last night and I saw where my bandmate was coming from. Though my energy is not manufactured, but is part of how I feel when I play, I could see his point of view. We all have points in our music where it naturally peaks and that, of course, elevates my energy, as well as the band's.

I told my mate that the constructive comments were appreciated; the clarity helps and the weeks of "we need to do less" finally has some meaning behind it. It's not like it's my first gig; I've been doing this for years and I have always been very energetic. People last night were saying how much they appreciated it and the positivity - I definitely look like I enjoy being out there. However, I can be a little less "on" without it making me feel like I'm stifling things.

(it didn't help that last night's "stage" is a flatbed truck outside the club. It is a little bouncy and I'll admit that I was trying to bounce it bit... )

Ok, maybe I overdid it this one time...

 

[Mechanical]

I pattern much of my presence on guys I see play in the big leagues.

I've watched Nathan East, Janek Gwizdala, Victor Wooten, Steve Harris, et al. play. What I think it comes down to is enjoying yourself.

As for John Entwistle, I think that statue "routine" was his schtick. In a world of rock and rollers smashing their guitars, running around like madmen, etc. he stood out because he stood still.