Why isn't graphite more popular?

[Bottoms_Up!]

Necks such as Modulus', Moses or even Rainsong (where I used to work) can be done quicker

Moses has had my body and deposit since July 7th! Last I heard, it was in fretting.

 

[PB+J]

I had a Zon bass with a graphite neck. It just was not very interesting to play.

I can't really see too many advantages. Maple is inexpensive and plentiful. It's strong enough, and light enough. Graphite is hard to work with, hard to machine, less environmentally friendly. Graphite has dead spots as well. Any resonating object has dead spots, it's the laws of physics.

It's true that a graphite neck will shift less with weather changes. And it won't develop a hump at the heel end like fender necks often do. It's stronger than wood for angled headstocks. But really, how much are people paying for fenders with old maple necks? Once a wooden neck settles in you're good forever, with maybe a couple seasonal tweaks

It seems to me that the cost/benefit ratio isn't really there for graphite. It makes sense for acoustic instruments, if you want an indestructable guitar, or even a double bass, but it's pricey and hard to work with

 

[Brad Johnson]

The 6 string headless that Bud Lecompte built was completely custom. The string retainer at the end of the neck was a custom made brass piece by another person, not Bud, and thus not something I wanted to pursue given the cost. Do I need to repost THAT again, or did you get it the second time now?...judging by past experience here, someone is going to read only part of the post I wrote and then wonder why I said that Bud has never made a headless. Please keep in mind that I've communicated directly with Bud about this, so it isn't a matter of theory or opinion.

Yes, you need to post THAT again. When was the first time you posted that the 6 string headless that Bud Lecompte built was completely custom? The string retainer at the end of the neck was a custom made brass piece by another person, not Bud, and thus not something you wanted to pursue given the cost? Was it buried in one of the myriad "only advantages" posts?

I've already "taken one for the team" by owning several headless basses...and still don't understand the technological advantages of headed over headless. (I'm sure that will get quoted next)

Why not... it goes to the root of this tangent... what YOU don't understand. Do I need to post THAT again?


Read the other posts... they explain the advantages/disadvantages clearly enough for MOST people to understand. Why YOU don't will remain a mystery.

I've never stated CG didn't have disadvantages, go back and look at my posts (criminy, how many times do I have to repost this? maybe I should just start quoting from my old posts). The sarcasm sprang from having to repeat myself. Again, tired of beating the dead horse that CG ALSO does have advantages (which you obviously enjoy Brad, considering you OWN CG constructed basses). The zealotry here seems to be denying that fact. So keep on denying it if you want...don't care to debate it anymore.

Okay, I went back and looked at your posts, specifically post 118:

"quote younggun:
Originally Posted by fretman4god
i think what he's saying is that there's nothing inherently sterile about CG or headless basses within the construction concepts. ie. if other manufacturers (Fodera, Fender, etc.) employed these construction techniques, that there'd be no disadvantages, tonally or otherwise.I'm not sure how I feel about it, but I figured I'd try to clarify what he's saying...

You: If Fender/Fodera, etc were to employ these construction techniques, the very same people that make the complaints would be singing the praises of CG headless or whatever else.

And yes, that's precisely what I'm saying, but some folks don't seem to understand that, so the posts just get longer and longer".


If what fretman4god wrote is PRECISELY what you're saying, maybe YOU need to go back and look at your posts.

Ya think? You have these two myopic spiels going on. You can't see problems even when they're pointed out OVER and OVER again. And then YOU get frustrated?


And you're wrong, I didn't enjoy my basses because CG had any advantages. I enjoyed them because the particular ones I had worked for me. If they had played and sounded the same with a wooden neck, I couldn't have cared less.

But nice well thought out assumption.

Regarding headless basses using standard strings that may cut and can scratch someone (Although if your are one of the ultra-coordinated-gifted and super careful people who have never-ever been so clumsy as to accidentally bang the head of your bass on something, then I don't see how this simple issue would be a problem ):

Did I say "I" did it? Duh


It really is funny that you think it takes being ultra-coordinated-gifted and super careful to not simply be CLUMSY.

You're still not putting much effort into thinking this stuff through... or at least I hope that's the case. I'll leave that at that.

I addressed it in my earlier post, but let me clarify; Status basses (and Steinbergers) are designed to use double ball strings (that's what I use on my Status). Which are another step ahead of standard strings (IMO...debate it if you want). The grub screws are there as an option. Of course, if someone were to use standard strings, they'd simply have to cut the strings correctly and the problem is solved. So yeah, the issue has been resolved...and more than 20 years ago (my Series 2000 was over 20 years old and designed to use double-ball strings), so I don't get your point. Please clarify.

If anything is abundantly clear it's how many points you don't get.


Well, I guess that covers all headless executions

Hint: There are headless instruments that don't use double ball end strings. I'd bet even you knew that. Of course not... problem solved.

 

[BlackFenderBass]

I find that Status Graphite necks are great for a unexpectedly low-ish price. http://www.status-graphite.com/

 

[younggun]

Ya think? You have these two myopic spiels going on. You can't see problems even when they're pointed out OVER and OVER again. And then YOU get frustrated?

It really is funny that you think it takes being ultra-coordinated-gifted and super careful to not simply be CLUMSY.

You're still not putting much effort into thinking this stuff through... or at least I hope that's the case. I'll leave that at that.

If anything is abundantly clear it's how many points you don't get

If you don't like what I post or my response to some point someone posts, counterpoint it, no need to start taking this to a personal insult level. We are talking less about the topics than we are about each other's personalities, so before this thread completely devolves to the the idiotic insult level, I'm done discussing it with you Brad.

 

[Brad Johnson]

If you don't like what I post or my response to some point someone posts, counterpoint it, no need to start taking this to a personal insult level. We are talking less about the topics than we are about each other's personalities, so before this thread completely devolves to the the idiotic insult level, I'm done discussing it with you Brad.

I've done just that, repeatedly. Then YOU get sarcastic and now you're feelings are hurt. I'm not crying about YOUR sarcasm.


Notice how once again you avoid the fundamental points and look for a slights. There's an obvious reason for that. You tell me to read again, I prove that you said what you protest you didn't say. Again.


Only seeing one side is myopic. Saying stuff that can't stand up to even the lightest scrutiny doesn't appear thoughtful. You said you don't see ANOTHER point. Is it not clear, since you said it, that there are points you don't get? These are your idea of insults.

Bye.

 

[nostatic]

What's not to love?

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[younggun]

That's a beaut nostatic! I'm soon to have a fretless 5'er myself. It'll be my first foray into fretless, and I did order the neck much the same as yours...side dot fret markers only, no lines. How useful do you find them as a reference point? I'm hoping I didn't make a mistake that will make my life super difficult by not ordering fretboard lines.

 

[throbgod13]

i think it's not used because of misconception, manufacturing processes and final costs..

it's a shame that it's not used more widely.. not just for necks, but for bodies and other parts..

 

[nostatic]

That's a beaut nostatic! I'm soon to have a fretless 5'er myself. It'll be my first foray into fretless, and I did order the neck much the same as yours...side dot fret markers only, no lines. How useful do you find them as a reference point? I'm hoping I didn't make a mistake that will make my life super difficult by not ordering fretboard lines.

I think fretlines make it more difficult actually. I find the side dots plenty of reference and you really need your ears and a lot of practice to nail it all the time.

 

[PBass101]

I was chatting to a UK bass playing friend last night who also has a Status headless bass. He was complaining that the pre sounded very bland, so I explained that on the Status preamp, you have to use a lot of boost (I use the treble and bass maxed & the mids flat on my Statiis), due to the higher frequencies the Status preamp employs. Give it some serious boost & that's where the knockout tone is.

Minor point but I think Status offers multiple preamp options with different frequency centers for their EQ knobs. Example I think the Stealth's preamp is set for 7kHz while the B-2 is 4kHz for the treble boost. They don't publish - for whatever reason - what those frequency centers are on the website for each preamp but I'm sure you could email and they'd help the buyer out.

Just sayin'.

 

[younggun]

I just realized I posted the wrong post in the wrong thread (the Jaydee bass pics that were here). Sorry for the confusion.

 

[Osprey]

This is going to be anecdotal, not theoretical. And I'll say "Just sayin" now.
I'm a P Bass-with-flats man. I love things made of wood. But I found a 20-year-old Status bass this week with a graphite neck at a good price, and had to give it a try. New strings, lowered action, work on the intonation. Work on the fine wooden body tomorrow, because that neck is a revelation (straight as an arrow) the tone can be warm or barking, the clarity of the notes is stunning. I'll always love the P, but playing the low G on down on this graphite bass is just a different musical experience. And the tone is consistent wherever you go on the fretboard. Give graphite a try if you get the chance.

 

[rockstarbassist]

I've had a LOT of Mods over the years, and just about all of their models, in just about all option configuration (except the TBX)- fretted and fretless Q5's, with and without the chechen top, various FB4's and FB5's, custom VJ w/ P/J pickups and they're all wonderful and I won't add anything to the argument of graphite vs wood b/c it's absurd in the first place as they both have pro's and con's, but I WILL say that if you're someone who plays out or live a lot, having a graphite-necked instrument is a godsend. It cuts extremely well in the mix, doesn't whack out of tune, immune to humidity (which is easily 100% for 6 to 8 mo's of the year around here), and just simply works. However if you're a studio cat and do 75%+ to a console, it's pretty easy to see why it may not be your bag. Strangely enough, I do recall not long ago when Flea got his infamous seashell pink J-bass which was used on the S.A. album, and not too far into that tour he went back to using a custom FB4... Interesting, say I!

The only reason I don't have one right now is b/c I can't yet afford to stockpile more than 1 or 2 4 figure basses! But I know the old chechen/chechen Q5 I had and was still my favorite Mod ever is still on the board, IIRC, so I'm looking to get that back soon.

But yeah this has been done to death. If you don't see or get the benefits of it, then don't play it. Simple as that. For those who say it's "cold" or "sterile", I usually say the sound of your typical Fender or clone is fat, loose, woofy, undefined and tubby... The unfounded generalizations amount to basically the same thing...

 

[MNAirHead]

Back to the inital question....

I've owned about 20 graphites (like all basses, it takes a few hours of acclimimation and should be tested in a band mix.

1-Cost.. qualtiy carbon is not cheap.
2-Trend.. carbon is bigger in europe botiques.. never caught on here
3-Clarity.. there was a comment on the highfi and microscope of graphite.. some folks can't deal with the long sustain and immediate clarity
4-Tone Variety ... I find my graphites are normally very consistent wiht tone.. doesn't really vary.. can't relly roll off like we can with a passive magnet and wood... there are a ton of band mixes that this works well with.


If I were to pick one.. it would be the cost.. I can get a quality USA mfg Pbass copy for $150-200.. Graphite starts at where a beater fender costs.

Out of the 400+ basses I've owned, nothing sustains or slaps like graphite... nothing goes from air conditioning to 150 degree sunlight like Graphite.

Really wishing this thread would have requested "Please only reply if you've owned a graphite more than 24 hours"

 

[Eublet]

Really wishing this thread would have requested "Please only reply if you've owned a graphite more than 24 hours"

Or "if you've gigged one for more than a couple weeks". The benefits of graphite really stick out when you've used one for a long time.

For everyone, my graphite basses were killer on the gig. Yes, there were some tonal qualities that made them sound like graphite basses when solo'ed. But my Modulus VJ sounded like a jazz, and my Quantum 6 sounded like a modern, dual-humbucker bass. They weren't nearly as "different" sounding as some people who post in this thread would have you believe. I don't really miss the Q6 because modern basses just aren't my thing, but I'd give anything to have the VJ back. It was heavy, no doubt, but it the neck NEVER moved unless I turned the rod.

On the other side, I've had wooden basses that go long periods of time without needing adjustments. I've owned 6 different Lakland basses, and the graphite reinforced necks are uber-stable, especially for wooden necks. I touched them up once or twice a year. The 4 string Skylines need a bit more attention than that. They have no graphite in them. But it's very minor, and a minor turn is all it takes. It requires less than 10 seconds to check and adjust, so I don't know what all the fuss is. If you have a quality instrument, then the neck really shouldn't change all that much. If it does then you have other problems.

In the end, I can't really see a big benefit for choosing an all-graphite neck over a good wooden neck. Stability benefits are just too minort to justify the cost and weight. However the tonal changes are significant enough to make it a pro or con depending on the player. I very much miss slapping on my VJ as it was crystal clear with a hint of vintage thrown in. However, it sounding nothing like slapping on my Lakland DJ, which is vintage and mean. Two different things, but in the same jazz category. I just don't know why folks insist one has to be better than the other.