Double Bass Why isn't Jazz that popular? (DB forum thread)

[Tom Lane]

To say that instrumental music is dead smells more like someone is romanticizing the past. People know good music (generally) when they hear it, instrumental or otherwise.

Respectfully, I have to disagree. I know a lot of folks who tell me Donna Lee sounds like noise to them. These same folks couldn't even tell whether it was played well or not, regardless of the music. They have either too little musical aptitude or too little music education or both.
There's music for entertainment, music for art's sake and a nearly infinite blend between the two and you have to decide what's comfortable for you. At the poles, entertainment earns money and art is self satisfying but rarely earns much. To eat, Art needs a sponsor, Entertainment has the public.

 

[MLysh]

"But Jimi Hendrix said "And you'll never hear surf music again"... and we haven't!"

Not sure if you've noticed: Hendrix is dead and the Beach Boys, Brian Wilson, and Dick Dale are still touring.

 

[Bruce Lindfield]

No matter the wording, it's true; it's the heart of the matter. There are people who are searching for something in music and there are people who go no further than the radio dial for it. Most people think of music as entertainment, which I honestly believe is fine. What I can't agree with is the aggressively anti-intellectual brush which art gets. "Jazz is for cats who think" is an undeniably true statement to my mind, but statements like these simply aren't allowed in the conversation. You know why? Anyone who is offended by such a phrase only hears, "you're dumb" and not, "come join us."

A lot of classical music is beyond what my ear can handle in terms of complexity. Do I call "elitist!" when a fan of this music tries to tell me what's up? No, they know better than I do.

You can have the same discussion about films/movies - some people just want to be entertained with jokes or explosions - while others want something that makes them think.

Some directors are just looking to make money, other are trying to make a statment about something important to them. Some films are total rubbish - others can be classed as works of art... and so on.

 

[wdave]

Elvis sums it up nicely

 

[dvh]

Elvis sums it up nicely

HAH! That made me laugh... his timing is perfect... thanks for that!

 

[Bisounourse]

[...]Once The Beatles and other pop vocal groups took over seldom did instrumentals chart again ('Classical Gas', 'Love Is Blue', and others I can't think of are rarely heard anymore).

Maybe it is different in the US, but in Europe there is a lot of techno/house etc. that makes the charts. Most of them are instrumental, or with only one lyric.

 

[MovingPitchers]

You obviously haven't heard some of MArcus Miller's stuff, have you? Some of his stuff are straight out blues rock and others are legit jazz. And Miller's stuff is pretty sick

 

[Bruce Lindfield]

I saw Marcus Miller at the "Love Supreme Jazz Festival" in the UK - it was a great weekend - thousands and thousands of people out in the British countryside in the sun - enjoying many Jazz acts!

If I had asked any of these people about the popularity of Jazz they would have laughed and said - look around at this :

 

[thejumpcat]

Went to the Detroit Jazz Festival this weekend. Estimated 600,000 in attendance. "Nobody goes there anymore -- it's too crowded."

 

[Huy Nguyen]

I can't stand MM's tone. *shrug*

 

[masterFlash]

Excuse me if this has been asked before in this thread, but its 49 pages long and I haven't read them all

But to the OP...how do you define popular?
Once you do that then we can answer.

I think you'll find jazz is popular amongst some people and not amongst others. So you need to be a bit more specific.

 

[Bruce Lindfield]

I can't stand MM's tone. *shrug*

On bass clarinet?

 

[Huy Nguyen]

I'm willing to bet his clarinet tone is better than his EB tone.

 

[phillybass101]

My father played Tenor Sax and I was exposed to it at an early age. Jazz ruled my household. However I evolved into a Funk Bass Player and all I can say is Jazz does not move or inspire me. It's just that simple. Another turnoff is how Jazz lovers always diss other forms of music. I am just as educated as any other Jazz Lover but the genre just doesn't speak to me. Has nothing to do with my background. level of exposure or sophistication. Some Jazz Lovers are adamant in their preaching and in trying to get others to like or understand it. Make my Funk P-Funk, I want my Funk uncut!!!

 

[phillybass101]

On another note guys. That stuff that Marcus Miller plays and other "Smooth Jazz Artists" play is not Jazz as I was brought up to understand Jazz. Want Jazz check out the old school players like Gene Ammons, Sonny Stitt, Cannonball Adderly up to Thelonius Monk, John Coltrane, earlly Miles, Charlie Parker, Lester Young etc.

 

[thejumpcat]

I gotta correct my Detroit fest post: 200,000. So I guess the OP is right.

 

[Bruce Lindfield]

On another note guys. That stuff that Marcus Miller plays and other "Smooth Jazz Artists" play is not Jazz as I was brought up to understand Jazz. Want Jazz check out the old school players like Gene Ammons, Sonny Stitt, Cannonball Adderly up to Thelonius Monk, John Coltrane, earlly Miles, Charlie Parker, Lester Young etc.

I would dispute this claim about Marcus - of course, he has played on many sessions that were not Jazz in any way - but he has got Jazz chops - particularly on bass clarinet, he can blow with the best and don't forget that Miles chose him as an arranger on his later albums.

I would also consider that his latest sextet - with trumpet,sax, guitar, piano and drums - is playing Jazz that has improvised solos and the kind of chord structures that come straight from the Jazz tradition - but with a funky take on all that.

For me - the band playing on his last album :

http://www.amazon.com/Renaissance-M...609&sr=8-1&keywords=marcus+miller+renaissance

- is very much in the Jazz tradition.

 

[Eric Hochberg]

+1, and furthermore, MM created a signature EB sound of the late 70's and 80's, I don't understand what's not to like about it?

 

[cyclopsbookworm]

I think part of it is the pace of the modern world. We get bombarded at such a fast pace in everything that it has two effects on the music we listen to. The first is people want music that gets them to the same pace that they are living their lives when they're in that grind. For example, I like to listen to something fast-paced when I'm about to go to work. It gets me ready for my day. The second effect is similar to the effect that caffeine has on the body...get up to speed, then crash, so musically, it has the effect of needing that 'speed' to get you going, then by the end of the day, you don't want to feel challenged anymore. You just want something easy to unwind to.

I don't necessarily think people aren't capable of 'getting' jazz, but it does have a challenging effect on its listener. Even if it is a subconscious effect, it is still there. It isn't paced to jive with this 'caffeine' effect of the modern world, and gets sort of bumped to the side because of it. I listen to jazz almost exclusively when I paint. It has the right amount of sonic space and musical challenges without the distraction of vocals (largely) and has the right pace for what I'm doing. If I'm mowing the lawn or working or driving my car, however, no dice.

 

[Bruce Lindfield]

I'm willing to bet his clarinet tone is better than his EB tone.

He has many different tones - on albums and when I have seen him live he often plays fretless and he gets more of a Jaco tone - it's not all the same tone.

But yes, his bass clarinet tone is very good - at the festival I was at - the best tune of the night was one where he played the clarinet and he explained it was about when visited the island of Gorée.

He recalled standing in La Maison Des Esclaves and passing through a door that faced the sea. He is now a UNESCO Artist for Peace and on their site he explains :

“I decided to write a piece about what we were feeling standing there in that slave house. As I was writing, I was struck by the idea that the “Door Of No Return”, which represented the end of their African experience, was also, in a certain way, the beginning of our African-American experience. At that point, I decided to not make the piece just about the pain and anger we were feeling, standing there in that slave house. I decided to make it also a celebration of the ability of human beings to transcend horrible beginnings and turn them into something positive.”


The tune starts off slow and mournful - but ends up joyous and celebratory - I thought it was one of the best things I heard at the festival - although I liked Snarky Puppy better overall!