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Why mic a bass cab?

#41
JimmyM said:
Some folks don't like them and that's cool. What I hate is when those of us who do like them get told they're not going to allow you to have a mic. "Allow" me on my own stage? Get the hell out of here!
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This.

I didn't have a mic for a long time. Even thought it a bit daft to use a mic with bass. Then I got a few "real" mics meant for this kind of thing... Totally opposite attitude for me now; both DI and mic all the way (with the preference of a mic).
 
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#42
wmhill said:
I usually get the opposite....they wanna mic my cab. My Tecamp has such a nice signal to work with, yet here comes a guy with a SM57. Sounds about as nice as a wet fart then!
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But blend that 57 with a DI for the lows and it's tonal nirvana. Except for those of you who prefer DI's. But still, the 57 is a very good mic for bass as long as there are some lows you can add with the DI feed.
 
#43
JimmyM said:
But blend that 57 with a DI for the lows and it's tonal nirvana. Except for those of you who prefer DI's. But still, the 57 is a very good mic for bass as long as there are some lows you can add with the DI feed.
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Right on- I could go for that, but these guys just want to do everything with the 57. Don't get me wrong- I LOVE a 57, but it's not the answer for bass by itself. And it seems like it's every time too :(
 
#44
wmhill said:
Right on- I could go for that, but these guys just want to do everything with the 57. Don't get me wrong- I LOVE a 57, but it's not the answer for bass by itself. And it seems like it's every time too :(
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Just tell them "no". Especially if you're the one that causes bodies to be in the building and thus him getting paid...
 
#46
I've only done one recording where I had a mic(and actually only one venue I've ever played has done this), 99.9% of the time its DI like a Sansamp in a studio or a Countryman live!! though I would much prefer a mic or a mix of both, I built a fEARful so I have a better idea of what the sound tech hears
 
#49
JackANSI said:
Just tell them "no". Especially if you're the one that causes bodies to be in the building and thus him getting paid...
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Then you end up with no FOH...... these guys are brutal. And usually it's a thing where the event or chamber of commerce is paying for the sound, so I don't even get that leverage.
 
#52
No Vice Novice said:
I have a question about the last part ... about the effects driven band ... This is true if they're using analog effects which affect the way the amp is driven? Correct? One of the things I've gathered (just by reading, not real world) is that analog effects can carry with them high output impedance, which drives the amp, which affects the sound, and can realistically only be heard/maximized through the proper cab. If you bypass the power amp portion of the analog circuit, you're subjected to the DI's output limits, and this is why having the cab mic'd in this situation makes sense. Do I have this right?
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You're not wrong, but you are overthinking this, and I neglected to mention I'm using my own DI, not the amp's.

When I say "effects driven", I mean bands that have their effects dialed in to the way they want things to sound. So if it's distortion, modulation, auto-wah, whatever it might be, they know better than I do what their tones should be and and how they fit into the arrangement of the song; if I mic their cab, I'll catch that. Also, if the FX are distortion based, the speakers act as a band-pass filter to get rid of some of the really fizzy highs that a dirt pedal can produce. If they're using an amp that's distorting (intentionally), I want to record that.

Then, as a safety net, and because often folks miss the mark when translating between live tone and recording tone, I'll take a pre-everything DI off the bass so if I need to reamp, I can, or, if I want to blend I can. Especially for distorted tones, having a clean, compressed signal to mix against the distorted sound can really embiggen stuff.
 
#53
I use a lot of amp/rig mojo and character in my tone so I always record with a signal from my head (among other options). I am using a pimped out Mesa Bass 400 with every tube carefully selected and like 10 years of experience with it so I know how it works and can easily dial in appropriately. It sounds more legit than a digital plugin.

When I record bass I always like to use at least two signals- direct line from my head and a mic on my cab (ideally a midrangey one like SM57- it is mid detail that I am after not sub frequencies). You need a good room or some sort of isolation because it will sound like crap if the mic is picking up reflections.

I like to mic the cab and blend it in a little (25-50% max) with the DI signal. My cab has an awesome tone of its own too and that is how I hear my bass in the room. The tone of the bass in the room is what inspires me- so I like that captured on tape. The bit of mic adds that slight element of atmosphere to the recording, which I like.

Some people just use a line from their P- or J- to the board or whatever and I am sure that works great for a lot. I do not put my tone in the hands of an engineer and digital plugins. On all of my recordings you hear my "sig" tone.
 
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#54
Bob_Ross said:
I would dispute the "more easily controlled" contention too.
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I think you're really over reaching on this one. Granted, choosing to mic a bass is a matter of taste as to the sound you want. But, easier to control? I've recorded in many studios over my music career, with some great engineers. After requesting to go direct, I have never yet had one of them say, "Hey, why don't we mic it. It'll be easier," because it wouldn't be. Also, the reason there are dozens of different pickups out there is because people want the exact sound a particular pickup gets. The job of a cab is to reproduce the pup sound as accurately as possible. Now, when you mic that cab and take air, distance and room size into consideration, you stand the chance of messing with that sound. Certainly a factor that makes going direct the easier route.
 
#55
Not everyone is looking for an exact sonic reproduction of "my bass only louder," though. I've had cabs that sound like being DI'd into the PA, and I prefer the cabs I use. Also, true, DI is slightly easier, but micing isn't like some mystifying black art. Slap a mic on the cone, do a little experimenting for 5 minutes about where you think it sounds best (you only have to do this once and you can mic it that way forever with the same basic results everywhere), and Bob's yer uncle, as the kids say.
 
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#56
I push my amp and a 15" into a tube overdrive sound that is hard to replicate with a DI and outboard gear, so it's important for me that my amp is mic'd in a recording session. Beta 52 will usually give me the sound I'm after. Avoid vocal mics like 57s, they seem to roll off the lows, however an SM7 will do the trick sometimes. Mixing is usually a combo of mic + DI with the DI rather clean handling the attack and the upper mids, and the mic bringing the meat. IMO, a solo DI track tends to lack that warmth in the lows that a good mic'd sound can bring. You may not notice what the DI lacks until you bring up the mic'd track along side it, and then you can hear what was missing.

Re-amping also works very well, when you run a clean DI track through a mic'd amp to dirty things up just a bit.

Edit: re-amping after the basics are laid down has the added bonus of bleed control during live tracking, so the amp can be pushed louder.
 
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#57
BassFishingInAmerica said:
I think you're really over reaching on this one. Granted, choosing to mic a bass is a matter of taste as to the sound you want. But, easier to control? I've recorded in many studios over my music career, with some great engineers. After requesting to go direct, I have never yet had one of them say, "Hey, why don't we mic it. It'll be easier," because it wouldn't be. Also, the reason there are dozens of different pickups out there is because people want the exact sound a particular pickup gets. The job of a cab is to reproduce the pup sound as accurately as possible. Now, when you mic that cab and take air, distance and room size into consideration, you stand the chance of messing with that sound. Certainly a factor that makes going direct the easier route.
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I never said a DI wouldn't be "easier" -- in fact, I'm certain that most engineers use a DI alone specifically because it's "easier" ...easier to deploy (i.e., more expeditious) -- I said I disputed that a DI was "easier to control"

And when you mic a speaker cabinet -- with the choice of both mic and cabinet presumably selected for a particular sound -- and then take air, distance and room size into consideration, you stand a better chance of actually capturing the sound that the bassist hears (or that the artist or producer desires) because no one's ever actually heard what a bass sounds like without a transducer. Yes, it's certainly possible to mess with that sound if the engineer's an amateur...but a hack can also mess up a simple DI'd signal, so that's a bit of a Straw Man argument.
 
#58
The modern approach to recording is to commit to nothing when recording. Even there, the miked signal can represent something close to what the players are hearing during performance, which could be relevant in the rare case that several people are playing together in the same time and space.

In the small amount of recording I still do, I use well-practiced and reliable but horribly out of date methods that require immediate commitment due to low track count and time constraints. I will often mike a bass with only a single ribbon mike, and I get a whole lot of good stuff automatically from miking one of my old tube amps with a neutral sounding ribbon and tracking to tape.

Otto
 
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#60
Probably said in a previous post, but the cabinet can add as much (perhaps even more) color as the amp you are using. I've had plenty of rigs that sounded great, but all the magic was in the amp + cab combo. In short that's why you'd want to mic a cabinet, not all cabs are flat response and some people want that coloration.
 

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