Tried one o'them new-fangled 2-pickup MIM Mustangs Saturday and ever since I've been digging deep for excuses not to pounce. (I keep coming back to "1 5/8 degrees to pay for.")
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Why MIM Fenders are bad?
- Thread starter cmgkhn
- Start date
It's just stigma, but that can be a really strong deterrent. When fuel injection came out, mechanics hated it across the board, and they all ripped it off and replaced it with carburetors. People who saw that believed that fuel injection was bad.
I've had well over 100 basses, nearly all USA or Japan, and mostly Fenders. I've never had a Mexican one, but for no reason other than the stigma.
This past summer, my friend asked me to find him a Pbass and asked what kind. He said "a Mexican Standard will be fine". I was shocked... his band is a professional psychobilly band, one of the most famous in the country, they tour more than 11 months a year, and they beat their stuff to death on stage, literally.
So you can take the opinion of the guy who plays in his living room, or the opinion of the pro. I think novices seem to brag about whats best, as if their knowledge earns them some street cred... But all of the pro's that I know just grab what they can and make it work.
I've had well over 100 basses, nearly all USA or Japan, and mostly Fenders. I've never had a Mexican one, but for no reason other than the stigma.
This past summer, my friend asked me to find him a Pbass and asked what kind. He said "a Mexican Standard will be fine". I was shocked... his band is a professional psychobilly band, one of the most famous in the country, they tour more than 11 months a year, and they beat their stuff to death on stage, literally.
So you can take the opinion of the guy who plays in his living room, or the opinion of the pro. I think novices seem to brag about whats best, as if their knowledge earns them some street cred... But all of the pro's that I know just grab what they can and make it work.
I’ve been buying and selling MIM J basses for a few years now and IME i have yet to find one with any fundamental flaws that would render them unplayable. Every one i’ve had was playable, some better than others and some exceptional, but none that couldn’t be set up with new strings and go straight to work. The big difference i’ve seen between MIM and MIA necks is the level of finish on the fret ends and neck edges. Fret ends on MIM basses will vary from pretty rough to almost perfect, but other than the rough ends being a distraction, they all played fine.
I’m no fan of MIM pickups but that’s another personal preference because i prefer humbuckers. My personal MIM’s all have humbuckers in them.
Same with the bridge, my awful right hand will drag the stock bridge saddles around when i really dig in and it’s easier for me to go with a more substantial bridge than it is to change my technique. If you have a good right hand the stock bridge should serve you well. MIA basses have a higher overall level of fit and finish but not enough to justify the price jump, at least not for me, but i love to tinker so i have more fun buying an MIM and modding it than i do just buying a bass and setting it up. There is also the fact that even a highly modified MIM will still cost less than an MIA.
If you are going mail order all i can say is make sure to buy from a place with a proved record of hassle free exchanges and don’t be afraid to take advantage of it. If you buy MIM do not expect perfection, the fit between the control plate and pick guard on MIM J’s will rarely be perfect and because of my OCD it is annoying as hell to me but it’s easy enough to correct with a little filling and drilling of the control plate holes if you can’t live with it as is, but sending an otherwise good playing bass back because of that might be a mistake.
In short, if you want the best possible looks out of the box, go with an MIA, if you want a good playing bass and a practice amp for the same money go for an MIM. Either should be a serviceable player but there are exceptions up and down so even buying mail order it’s going to come down to a hands on evaluation.
Best of luck. Hopefully your first example will be one of those exceptional players. If you happen to get one with really rough fret ends but otherwise a good player, you are still money ahead to have the edges dressed by a pro than you are to send it back.
I’m no fan of MIM pickups but that’s another personal preference because i prefer humbuckers. My personal MIM’s all have humbuckers in them.
Same with the bridge, my awful right hand will drag the stock bridge saddles around when i really dig in and it’s easier for me to go with a more substantial bridge than it is to change my technique. If you have a good right hand the stock bridge should serve you well. MIA basses have a higher overall level of fit and finish but not enough to justify the price jump, at least not for me, but i love to tinker so i have more fun buying an MIM and modding it than i do just buying a bass and setting it up. There is also the fact that even a highly modified MIM will still cost less than an MIA.
If you are going mail order all i can say is make sure to buy from a place with a proved record of hassle free exchanges and don’t be afraid to take advantage of it. If you buy MIM do not expect perfection, the fit between the control plate and pick guard on MIM J’s will rarely be perfect and because of my OCD it is annoying as hell to me but it’s easy enough to correct with a little filling and drilling of the control plate holes if you can’t live with it as is, but sending an otherwise good playing bass back because of that might be a mistake.
In short, if you want the best possible looks out of the box, go with an MIA, if you want a good playing bass and a practice amp for the same money go for an MIM. Either should be a serviceable player but there are exceptions up and down so even buying mail order it’s going to come down to a hands on evaluation.
Best of luck. Hopefully your first example will be one of those exceptional players. If you happen to get one with really rough fret ends but otherwise a good player, you are still money ahead to have the edges dressed by a pro than you are to send it back.
Thank you for your thorough explanation. It cleared many things for me.
With any bass you purchase without trying it out is a gamble, you can get a 1500 dollar Fender American Standard and it could be a lemon or you can get a MIM Fender and it could be a lemon, each and every bass will be different in its own way..I’ve been very lucky with all my online bass purchases, they are all very nice instruments including an a MIM Roadworn Pbass and CV Squier Pbass.
I prefer buying American in general. I have been known to spend more to do so on many occasions, and will continue.
Queue Fender bass guitars. I prefer the MIM Player series P to the MIA Professional. The finish quality is comparible, I prefer the MIM hardware, and the Alnico 5 pickups on the Player have amazing sound.
I'm glad the MIA is twice the price, because if it was just a bit more than the MIM, I'd have a major dilemma, I'd want the MIM, but feel I need to buy the MIA.
I can't speak for earlier MIM Fenders as I've never had one, but when I was researching the current model the reoccurring theme was that they are excellent basses for the price. I absolutely agree.
Queue Fender bass guitars. I prefer the MIM Player series P to the MIA Professional. The finish quality is comparible, I prefer the MIM hardware, and the Alnico 5 pickups on the Player have amazing sound.
I'm glad the MIA is twice the price, because if it was just a bit more than the MIM, I'd have a major dilemma, I'd want the MIM, but feel I need to buy the MIA.
I can't speak for earlier MIM Fenders as I've never had one, but when I was researching the current model the reoccurring theme was that they are excellent basses for the price. I absolutely agree.
In an usual turn, I haven't even read through this thread, because in my opinion Mexican craftsfolk still give a hoot about their work and in my opinion they stand every bit as equal if not better than their American counterparts. So phooey on anyone that thinks otherwise.
All Kate 90s, but I have an MiM P, a J, and a J fretless which are all top quality IMO.
I’m wondering what the complaints are?
I’m wondering what the complaints are?
... just a 2 cent note .. with regard to the way MIA and MIM Fenders are perceived ... MIA Fender are designed and built as to be better instruments, and, in general they are better instruments ... however, one thing is to be better instruments, another is to be sold at the right price .... in this regard, though, I have to say that I consider both the price range of both the newly introduced Player series and that of the Am. Pro. as reasonably allocated in terms of what may be perceived as being FMIC’s overall commercial strategy ... aside for the graphite rods in the neck, a MIM bass can be upgraded for much less than the price difference with their American counterparts although in the case of the ‘50s P basses I don’t see much to be upgraded (I’d gladly buy a road-Worn 3TS body to be provided with a MIA jazz bass neck with s rosewood fretboard) ... therefore, it is more a matter of what somebody can afford at the time of purchasing the instrument rather than something else
Yeah I just had one of my RW’s refinished, it was a nice piece of wood. Certainly not pieces and laminate.
I apologize if me second sentence was interpreted to be about you. The statement was made as a general observation and not pointed at you.
You probably fall within the parameters of the first sentence as you already have what you consider a cheap bass, and sound as if you are happy with that bass.
They ara not bad...I've played once a US Jazz Bass 70's RI, and it ws bad! it had the frets rounded at the edges but that was all the diference between the MIM and the US, and they where from the same owner, he told me "you can have the US one for the jam... Im using the MIM" BUT! then he told me not all US are bad and not al MIM are good... so..... black sheeps is what must be... BTW the US one had bad routing on the neck pick up, he paid a lot! he wanted the Adam Clayton one but made a bad choice... I played the Adam Clayton at GC in Sunset and damn! that thing is butter! my dream bass but out of my leage.
for my ears, the MIM mustang P/J is an awesome sounding bass. i have one, but pretty much every one i've played sounds awesome.
and yes, my mustang has a scratchy switch. we're going to replace it for a whopping $10, maybe $14. everything else works perfectly, neck is good, frets are good, pickups are awesome, so i'm completely happy with it.
and yes, my mustang has a scratchy switch. we're going to replace it for a whopping $10, maybe $14. everything else works perfectly, neck is good, frets are good, pickups are awesome, so i'm completely happy with it.
I have a 2015 MIM P bass neck mated to a 2003 MIM P bass body. This neck is flawless. The action is so good it practically plays itself.
With this explanation I totally agree with you. Thank you for your replies.
I am happy with my cheap bass because it has taught me many things and it has a nice tone to my ears. Of course this is what matters in the end. Now I am open to new musical discoveries and looking for a new bass to be my friend on this road.
I don't know of any Fenders on this particular forum that ever get any significant form of hate.
In my opinion, the tone of an MIM Fender is the same as an MIJ Fender is the same as an MIA Fender is the same as an MIC Fender. A Fender P sounds like a Fender P (to me), a J sounds like a J (to me), etc. Are there subtle differences? Sure. Can a blindfolded bass player tell you the differences between them by listening to sound clips? Very highly doubtful. In my opinion, the only real big difference is "Are the hands putting them together American hands, Mexican hands, Japanese hands, or Chinese hands?"
The only real hate you'll see on this forum is from people who read the statements I just made and get all butt hurt because <insert reason they paid $1500 for a $500 P-Bass>.
Nothin' but love fellow TBers.
In my opinion, the tone of an MIM Fender is the same as an MIJ Fender is the same as an MIA Fender is the same as an MIC Fender. A Fender P sounds like a Fender P (to me), a J sounds like a J (to me), etc. Are there subtle differences? Sure. Can a blindfolded bass player tell you the differences between them by listening to sound clips? Very highly doubtful. In my opinion, the only real big difference is "Are the hands putting them together American hands, Mexican hands, Japanese hands, or Chinese hands?"
The only real hate you'll see on this forum is from people who read the statements I just made and get all butt hurt because <insert reason they paid $1500 for a $500 P-Bass>.
Nothin' but love fellow TBers.
Alkali Ike
Gold Supporting Member
- Jan 1, 2011
- 2,857
- 15,669
- Disclosures
- I never actually learned to play very well
Just a random personal observation about products made in Mexico in general.
I have two VW Golfs (never mind why). They’re the same model year. One was built in Germany. One was built in Mexico.
Guess which one has the overall better fit and finish, especially the paint job. The Mexi-built. I can provide photos if needed.
I have two VW Golfs (never mind why). They’re the same model year. One was built in Germany. One was built in Mexico.
Guess which one has the overall better fit and finish, especially the paint job. The Mexi-built. I can provide photos if needed.
Any criticism of MIM Fenders that I've seen has been circled around the idea that some people think that only Made In USA instruments should bear the Fender nameplate...IOW, any import whatsoever should bear the Squier logo. And, those criticisms typically come from internet sources that are far snobbier than anywhere I'd ever hang out.
My opinion concerns just MIM p-basses, never owned a fully original stock jazz (my "Jazz bass" is actually a p bass body with an AVRI Jazz neck bought from the stratosphere). I own three P basses, all of them MIM and needless to say, they all sound different between each other. So here it goes:
- How does someone find a good MIM Fender? => just find one that has been properly taken care of, not abused or "relic'ed through the years" (unless it is a road-worn model or one of those with factory nitro finishes)
- What actually is better/worse? Is it the build quality? Is it the wood quality? Is it only the tone? Is it the workmanship? Is there a secret serial number to be deciphered on the good ones (lol)? => the stock pickups on the latest Player Series seem to be of higher quality, I can show you a pic later on of the back of an early 2010 MIM pup's and you'll see why (respond to this post so I can remember to take the pic). Also, some old-school colors previously only (or mostly) seen among the American made models now are easily affordable with this new series. The hardware of the MIA models is definitively much better than the MIM counterpart, but that won't (IMO) make the bass sound better or worse for that matter. What it can do is maintain your proper set-up longer, and that DOES affect your sound and playability significantly.
- How much do these aspects differ amongst these basses (same design, different series/brand)? For example, maybe the wood is far superior in MIAs but what about the electronics? => GASing about new pup's it's always fun, so I never really cared much about the stock MIM pickup quality. Even thou some may be really good, still I would have fallen into the hype - as I did - and bought some Seymour duncan's, Nordstrand or whatever. As for the wood, that is a huge can of worms that Im not willing to open right now, maybe it is, maybe it is not. I can tell you that the MIA factory in California is just a couple of miles away from the Ensenada factory at Mexico, so my guess is that the wood quality might not be that different after all. Maybe the wood blocks used in the MIA models are left unsealed/unfinished for longer periods of time before painting them? allowing them to dry naturally. What series? there are dozens so that's a tough one to answer, the RWs are very well steemed in this community, myself included.
- Is there really a huge gap between the good and bad MIMs or is it exaggerated? How much can two MIMs be different? => VERY different, my own MIM standard is sounding much different now compared to how it used to some years ago. the reason being that my technique has improved greatly, especially my right-handed one. Using free-strokes vs. resting-strokes and/or moving your plucking hand horizontally farther away or closer to the bridge will change your sound dramatically. Even if you get to have two exact same basses, same electronics and wood components, your string type and brand can easily make a whole world of a difference. Moreover, 2/3 of my p-basses are strung with chromes, but one set is fresh new and the other is almost 2yo, and yes, I hear the difference. The fresh set still has that "zing"whereas the older set is mellower.
- Lets say that you ordered one online, do you think that its pure luck to actually get a good MIM? Or is it your bad luck that you got an exceptionally bad one? What are the odds of ending up with a bad one when picking blindly? => Get one with a working truss rod, generally well appearing and work your way from there.
- Finally, what are your opinions about the latest (2018) MIM Fenders. => Haven't tried those, yet.
