Why musicians do and don't get hired back....

[PauFerro]

I want to add a bit more

1. I like guys who are positive about the band, and not hyper critical. I had one guy that would call us a "bunch of hackers". That might be true, but it doesn't motivate the group to say that.

2. I like to work with people who sincerely love to perform and play.

 

[PauFerro]

Nothing wrong with a sub setting their price, as long as they do it ahead of time. No accepting the gig, and then stating "I need X".

I agree that a deal is a deal, but the thing to remember is that some guys want a permanent place in the band (or at least be first call). When we have a vacancy in the remnants of our peer based band, it's the guy who fit in the best, played well enough and was the most cooperative who tends to get the first chair position...

 

[Space Pickle]

I was reading through some of the threads and thought I'd share why musicians don't get hired back

1. I am an idiot.

 

[buldog5151bass]

1. I am an idiot.

But an honest one. I'll give you that.

 

[Thumper19605]

In short , be part of the solution not the problem.

 

[meowcow]

Knowing how to behave in public. To me, this means

• Dressing properly for the gig
• Not drinking or smoking on stage
• Being or getting drunk or stoned on a gig
• Positive, respectful interaction with customers
• Not using abusive or profane language
• Leaving their stage and break area a mess

among others. Real Pros know how to do this.

Just watched The Last Waltz a week ago and figured the best specialized in the third with the requisite disregard for the second

 

[Ellery]

My biggest problem with these bands is they never understand why I'm right.

 

[Kmonk]

I have a friend who has played guitar with John Entwistle, Jack Bruce, Todd Rungren and many others. I once asked him how he was able to get these gigs. This is what he told me.

1. Show up early.

2. Show up prepared.

3. Play with as many people as possible.

4. Realize that your role is to make the artist that hired you look good.

5. Don't be a dick.

He said if you are a decent player and follow these five rules, you will develop a reputation for being a good player who is easy to deal with and you will get more offers than you can possibly accept.

 

[garp]

For the last several years, by choice, I haven't been a dedicated member of any single band. I now stick exclusively to sub work and pick-up gigs, and I'm now busier than ever, and I have some usable data on how my local scene works. IMHO, Kmonk's cardinal rules are spot-on. I would add a sixth rule regarding compensation which incorporates the suggestions of several previous commenters about pricing your services properly and adhering to your policy. In the past, I felt a tad guilty about turning down gigs that didn't meet my criteria, but I no longer do because another more-appropriate opportunity will be along soon.

 

[4001]

Admittedly, I'm tough to deal with. Why? Because I constantly complain about musicians not playing music properly! Wrong chords and drum beats all the dang time. I constantly call folks out. They get sick of me complaining. So I know why I don't get called back. I also fall into the 'playing music I like' category.

Well, too bad for them. I woodshed until I have the material down cold or as close to it as I can.
I expect the same thing from the rest of the band.
....and I just cannot enjoy playing music that I think SUCKS.

I look at it this way. I look at the musical commitments that the bands that influenced me to play dealt with and expect that if any band is going to be good then they should invest the same kind of energy into being as good as their influences. You're not going to fool anyone when you take a half-assed approach unless that is the style of music you want to perform.

 

[andawun]

The reasons op stated are why bl's in cities like memphis, nashville are always saying they cant find good bass players. Another one is: great technique but cant groove or play with dynamics.

 

[Ric5]

Bands that get drunk don't get rehired.

Bands that don't tip their waitress don't get rehired

Bands that use the PA to order drinks don't get rehired

Bands that are rude don't get rehired

 

[PauFerro]

Amen to the showing up early comment. I had the one guy I had a bit of a rough feeling about when we auditioned him. He seemed to have the right background but he was kind of gruff. I had this impression he would eventually become a problem, but I ignored it because the other guys thought he was the best available.

Anyway, he was notorious for showing up at the last minute. I would get to the venue a couple hours before the down note to deal with any problems, get the PA set up, make sure I was available on the phone to handle the calls from members trying to fine tune the directions into the venue. I called some of them to give them the details about where to park as a scout, particularly if he venue was large or unknown to them.

And then, I sit there FRETTING because it's 30 minutes to the down note and the guitar player isn't there yet. I have to rush out to his car to help him get his stuff in fast, and he says "I got it". My silent thought was "no you don't because you're late". But I didn't say it Then I have to rush to tape down a cord he needed strung across a walkway, which I wasn't expecting, and then we started five minutes late.

Grossly inconsiderate to both the client and the BL when people do that. And they aren't even apologetic about it.

And as I predicted, he ended up being the absolute worst musician I played with from an interpersonal perspective. He played well, but even that had its own liabilities.

 

[Kukulkan61]

Im pretty much everything you listed, im not a pro, dont read and not very technical but what i put on the plate is solid, perfect timing, originality and my own style and play with alot of feeling, been doing it for over 35 years, i havnt been in a steady solid working band since 2014 just been gigging occasionally with musician friends and past bands, last time i played was early Sept. Havnt been called for anything, im thinking a big reason is because i was in MC accident in May 2015, tore my left shoulder, bicep to hell but is ok now, lost my left leg below the knee but im walking again, i just feel like everyone thinks im broken to the point where i cant play anymore? I've even stated to them " I lost my leg not my soul and my fingers I can still play" maybe i just suck?? anyway im thinking about just hanging it up and selling all my gear but just keep 1 bass and amp for whatever reason IDK. Its depressing especially when i was counting on music to help get me thru this life changing thing that happened to me, guess ill just let it ride and see what happens..

 

[Renaissance]

Lots of good info in this thread but I think it's only part of the full story. The bookend thread should be "Why BLs have a hard time getting and keeping quality musicians...".

I expect a BL to have their poo-poo together, to have the skills necessary to run a band.

I show up prepared, I expect the same. Sure a band should be fun but it's no fun for me sitting at rehearsal waiting for you to learn your part after I've spent my free time learning my part. It is the band leaders responsibility to correct this type of problem if you expect me to be a good hang.

As someone noted earlier, I can play out every night for free. I'm not a pro musician. I have a day job that pays my bills so I'm very flexible about my gig pay. However, if all you've got are low paying gigs because you've tapped into the "non-profits can't pay much" market - don't expect me to make your list.

If you want agreeable musicians to play for you, you need to have something to offer - namely GIGS. If we work together all the time and I get a line on a gig I'll gladly pass it to you. If you expect me to constantly bring you gigs - what do I need you for?

Lack of management skills on the BLs part cause as many problems as the musicians you deem "un-hireable".

I haven't posted this as an attack towards the OP. Simply balancing the scales....

 

[Steven Ayres]

I've been thinking about this for a while, and I think there's an important aspect missing from this argument.

+ Cooperative
- Not Cooperative

To someone who wants something that makes musical and professional sense to me, I'm the first guy.
To the one who wants me to do my job in a way that I think is wrong, I'm the second guy.

+ Professional
(- Not Professional)

To someone whose sense of quality and professionalism is similar to mine, I'm the first guy.
To someone with different ideas about what's professional, I'm the second guy.

+ Respects the culture
- Wants to take over the band

When things are going well, I'm the first guy.
When the wheels are coming off and I can contribute to getting us through the gig successfully, and especially where the leader is insecure about himself, I'm the second guy.

+ Good Interpersonal Skills
- Entitled Attitude

To someone who respects me and my skills, I'm the first guy.
To someone who doesn't, I'm the second.

(+ Happy to get whatever)
- Too Expensive

To those who respect themselves and understand that we are in charge of the value of our work, I'm the first guy.
To those who don't, I'm the second.

My point here is that one's evaluation of another's behavior depends on one's values and expectations, and those are necessarily completely subjective. If your sense of quality allows you to accept things that mine does not, to you I'm a snob and to me you're a slob. The only objectively correct place to be in a band is in roughly the same place that the leader is subjectively, and if I don't think I can do that, I don't take the gig.

When I'm leading I try to hire people that I'm confident will respect my role, listen and contribute according to their own lights. I try to allow them to be who they are, because that's what makes them attractive as players in the first place. If I need a showman, I can shift the material if he's not that good at technical skills. If I need a technician, I can be more tolerant of weak social skills. The real trick to leading is making the most of the people you have. If you select musicians for compliance, in my experience you're betting long on dumb luck and headed for musical mediocrity.

The thing to do is know your people, and communicate your values, expectations and limits clearly and openly, up front. Don't expect someone else to 'just know' what you want — your ideas are your own interpretations of what's 'right.' What's 'normal' depends entirely on the context, and reference to 'standard practice' is mental shorthand for the practice you like.

 

[3Liter]

1. Show up early.

2. Show up prepared.

3. Play with as many people as possible.

4. Realize that your role is to make the artist that hired you look good.

5. Don't be a dick.

He said if you are a decent player and follow these four rules, you will develop a reputation for being a good player who is easy to deal with and you will get more offers than you can possibly accept.

I've read this a bunch of times and that's 5 rules. Whcih one can I ignore?

 

[1st Bass]

The line that said "four"?