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Why musicians do and don't get hired back....

Here are some good reasons (in my opinion) to hire musicians..

1. Cooperative
I have a couple who are not the best players in town, but they are SO EASY to get along with. They make suggestions and have boundaries, but generally, if I call them for a gig or something, they always say yes. They show up prepared. They are open-minded about original material. And they seem appreciative of whatever pay is available. They are generally open to feedback on their playing.

2. Professional
There is a top player in town. I ask him to do anything on the gig, and he agrees. He arrives on time, starts on time, etcetera.

3. Good Music
This is always a good reason, but it's not the only reason if there is a lot of baggage with it.

4. Respects the culture

They understand the way things work in the band and work within it. They may make suggestions or have concerns about things, but they express them respectfully, and as a leader you never feel they are being aggressive.

5. Good Interpersonal Skills

These are people who generally know how to work with other people. They give feedback honestly but kindly, avoid harsh language, and generally get what they want without creating drama. I think they have good judgment about what battles to fight, and how to express themselves when they are not happy in a way that is not defensive.

6. They Book Gigs

Rather than join five other bands, they invest in the one they have. I get phone calls with leads and actual booked gigs.

I was reading through some of the threads and thought I'd share why musicians don't get hired back, and why they end up on the preferred list.

1. Not Competent/Not Prepared

Had a drummer who showed up at a good paying, regular gig with no cymbals. The client walked out and stood there, staring at us. We sounded like dirt, I thought. We never got hired back. Also, they show up late. I get to teh gig way early and then have to scramble in the last 15 minutes to help them get set up in time for the down note.

2. Entitled Attitude

Had one musician who complained about everything whenever I played with him -- pay, lack of space for setting up, etcetera. And even though it wasn't part of the deal, he came up to me at the end of the gig and said "We need food for the band". I went to the owner and asked if they would provide it, and they did, but I thought it was gauche the way he demanded food when it wasn't part of the deal I offered. him.

3. Too Expensive

I think there are musicians that can be out of touch with current pay rates. They expect too much money -- more than the bands I perform with can provide.

4. Not Cooperative

I had one guy I met at a jazz jam. I wanted to work with him after talking to him, and invited him over with the other guys to just get to know each other. He didn't have his guitar with him at the jam (he was spectating), so I didn't know how well he played. He replied "Call me when you have a gig". I never called him.

Most of the guys I play with, even the top of scene guys, are willing to come out once and check out the chemistry.

Another guy refuses to play music other than music he likes.

Yet another one seems to delight in telling clients "no" when they make a special request. I am always on edge about whether the guy will serve the heck out of the customer...

5. Not Loyal

There is a phenomenal player in town who is probably the best I've ever played with. But if he gets a better offer on a night he has agreed to play with me, he cancels and gives me a referral to a different musician who can do the job. Then I have to figure out a new musician on a moment's notice. He told me once that he doesn't understand why, when he's back from touring, no one calls him.

6. Wants to take over the band

Had a couple guys who see I have a good thing going. Then they want to a) rehearse at their house not mine (making me drive and haul gear, in addition to all the band management stuff, to which they don't contribute) b) dictate the repertoire to everyone c) gut all the songs we have prepared because they don't like them d) criticize what we have going already.

Do you have any you would add to the two lists?
 
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Admittedly, I'm tough to deal with. Why? Because I constantly complain about musicians not playing music properly! Wrong chords and drum beats all the dang time. I constantly call folks out. They get sick of me complaining. So I know why I don't get called back. I also fall into the 'playing music I like' category.
 
Admittedly, I'm tough to deal with. Why? Because I constantly complain about musicians not playing music properly! Wrong chords and drum beats all the dang time. I constantly call folks out. They get sick of me complaining. So I know why I don't get called back. I also fall into the 'playing music I like' category.

Ever thought of making it a personal goal to figure out ways to help the band improve? But in ways that are supportive? I get a kick out of that. I actually found our budding Keyboard player a position in a big band where she could learn a lot of jazz tunes without me having to rehearse with her. Plus, I had her come out to one of our higher profile gigs to observe the piano player who is first call on the list. It justified why I wouldn't call her first, and she got ideas at the same time. And then, I have her playing volunteer stuff at a regular gig I have (volunteer) where we rehearse. She seems to be getting better and better, and I never have to say a thing about her playing.

I plan to take a chance this week and give the drummer (also a budding player) and her a chance to do some Tension and Release stuff -- where I show them a video of some cats spontaneously increasing the tension through repetition...I am not sure how they will react as I am not usually this "directive" in filling gaps in their skills, but I plan to try. Even if it means we ahve some "canned" rhythmns we repeat to create tension....

So, I think looking at the band as a process and journey rather than a destination can help people get better and better without feeling someone is beating up on them.
 
I'd say i agree with your list and its pretty comprehensive. Not much to add to it really.

I think one thing that really stands out is personality strengths. You can be just getting by musically, but if you are a nice and agreeable person you can keep the gig. If you are a virtuoso on the instrument but a complete whiner and control freak, out you go.

As a bass player, i try to be the quintessential side man. I don't try to take control of the rep and arrangements. I don't call people out when they make a mistake. I keep a good positive attitude at rehearsals and gigs...even when things aren't going the smoothest. Trying to push change in a group you don't lead is really hard, so i don't try, to keep peace. When asked for input, i give it in an honest but respectful manner, knowing that not everyone thinks like i do. When asked to do something different than i normally do, i give it a try at the very least.
 
Some good stuff in the OP, may I add a few comments? ...

Rather than join five other bands, they invest in the one they have. I get phone calls with leads and actual booked gigs.
I'm that guy. I have no interest in digging' up the gigs, and don't have to. I'll leave that to the ones who can and do. That makes me "unhireable"?

I think there are musicians that can be out of touch with current pay rates. They expect too much money -- more than the bands I perform with can provide.
Certainly. But I have a minimum rate for a gig, and if the band can't meet it, I very well might turn down the gig. No biggie.

Another guy refuses to play music other than music he likes.
I have no problem playing a few songs I don't like ... but I won't play a genre I don't like. Why should I?

I had one guy I met at a jazz jam. I wanted to work with him after talking to him, and invited him over with the other guys to just get to know each other. He didn't have his guitar with him at the jam (he was spectating), so I didn't know how well he played. He replied "Call me when you have a gig". I never called him.
I tend to be active in the regional open mic scene, often sitting in on bass or acoustic guitar. It's just something to do on an off night. I often sit with newcomers and those I haven't heard before (it's networking). I've said that ... meaning, I haven't got the time or inclination to play with you in your start-up band. I didn't expect (or want) a call.
 
...4. Not Cooperative

I had one guy I met at a jazz jam. I wanted to work with him after talking to him, and invited him over with the other guys to just get to know each other. He didn't have his guitar with him at the jam (he was spectating), so I didn't know how well he played. He replied "Call me when you have a gig". I never called him.

Most of the guys I play with, even the top of scene guys, are willing to come out once and check out the chemistry...

The best top of scene guys are usually too busy to jam and check out the chemistry.
 
Some good stuff in the OP, may I add a few comments? ...


I'm that guy. I have no interest in digging' up the gigs, and don't have to. I'll leave that to the ones who can and do. That makes me "unhireable"?

No -- if I need you -- great, I will call -- but if someone else keeps calling me with gigs for the band, then he obviously gets first call for future gigs. Also, I'm willing to call that guy who is loyal first because he makes my life easier. If he's not available, or has other limitations that warrant calling you, I will call you in a heart beat if you can do the job.

Certainly. But I have a minimum rate for a gig, and if the band can't meet it, I very well might turn down the gig. No biggie.

I have a few guys like that. The problem is, lower priced players get the gigs if the money isn't there to hit your minimum. And they often take over the chair of guys who expect a certain rate of pay if they are never available or refuse too many gigs.

I have no problem playing a few songs I don't like ... but I won't play a genre I don't like. Why should I?

Fair enough. My comment is after they've committed to Jazz. But then they get all picky about the songs in that genre to the point you can't get anything past them -- that is a problem.


I tend to be active in the regional open mic scene, often sitting in on bass or acoustic guitar. It's just something to do on an off night. I often sit with newcomers and those I haven't heard before (it's networking). I've said that ... meaning, I haven't got the time or inclination to play with you in your start-up band. I didn't expect (or want) a call.

In my case, above, I had an active working band with a solid gigging history. So, in my view, we had legs. But he wouldn't come out to get to know us for when that next whack of gigs came onto the books. Granted, at the time, we didn't have much on the books, but I never called him when gigs popped up because he didn't seem willing to make me comfortable with hiring him...

And how people react to requests from the BL in the beginning phases of a relationship, for me, is often a leading indicator of how they will react when I make requests further down the line.
 
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Ever thought of making it a personal goal to figure out ways to help the band improve? But in ways that are supportive? I get a kick out of that. I actually found our budding Keyboard player a position in a big band where she could learn a lot of jazz tunes without me having to rehearse with her. Plus, I had her come out to one of our higher profile gigs to observe the piano player who is first call on the list. It justified why I wouldn't call her first, and she got ideas at the same time. And then, I have her playing volunteer stuff at a regular gig I have (volunteer) where we rehearse. She seems to be getting better and better, and I never have to say a thing about her playing.

I plan to take a chance this week and give the drummer (also a budding player) and her a chance to do some Tension and Release stuff -- where I show them a video of some cats spontaneously increasing the tension through repetition...I am not sure how they will react as I am not usually this "directive" in filling gaps in their skills, but I plan to try. Even if it means we have some "canned" rhythms we repeat to create tension....

So, I think looking at the band as a process and journey rather than a destination can help people get better and better without feeling someone is beating up on them.
Well, the band I'm in, I try to help as much as I can because I see the potential. I have researched chords and sheet music for the guitar player. I have suggested to the drummer to check YouTube for certain drumming styles instructional videos that he has a problem with (i.e Reggae, Latin styles).
 
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The best top of scene guys are usually too busy to jam and check out the chemistry.

This hasn't been the case with the top of scene guys in my town. They come out once and we play for an hour to get a feel for each other. Some important things come out of these meetings -- who is in charge, for example. The ones who I ended up playing with might have respected the fact that I was willing to do all the management work and felt we needed to get together once to get a feel for each other. They may not have thought of it as necessary, but they acquiesced out of respect for the fact I was probably going to provide them with work.

One guy was retired, so it wasn't a big deal, and the other guy was a music teacher with open spots during the day, like me...so it wasn't an issue.

Now, I admit, I am not top of the scene, but competent...so I think these guys were also wondering whether I had a scene THEY were comfortable with too.
 
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Doesn't make you unhireable, just means that if another guy who plays decent books a couple gigs, then he gets to play and get paid by default.
I have a guy like that, he loves to play with us, but doesn't have time to do all the gigs, so when he calls and has a couple gigs lined up, the regular guy (who never books gigs) sits out.

PauFerro said:
Rather than join five other bands, they invest in the one they have. I get phone calls with leads and actual booked gigs.
I'm that guy. I have no interest in digging' up the gigs, and don't have to. I'll leave that to the ones who can and do. That makes me "unhireable"?
 
Just a comment regarding "Too Expensive"; I'm well aware of what the going rates are for certain gigs around town, so I set my rates such that I don't get called to very many of those gigs that I'm not interested in doing. I could "work" every night of the week for $50 or less. Most of those are going-nowhere bar gigs that just aren't worth the effort or time away from family and other better-paying ventures (like better gigs). Not to mention, most of the bands that take those kinds of gigs are there because that's the best they can do.

That is to say that I set my rates precisely so that I don't get called for certain gigs. If I want to work with someone, though, I'm VERY flexible.
 
If I'm filling in for a band, I name my price. If they can't or don't want to pay me that much, they can call someone else.

If it's my own project, I often play for no money at all. We do a lot charity gigs. Hell, sometimes if I like the cause I'll even play for free and offer a donation. But if I'm filling in for strangers, I have my price.
 
I'm not a pro at all, but did try and recruit a drummer once for a hobby band. This guy could play competently, more that our actual drummer. He was nice. But then "too nice". Wouldn't stop talking, didn't stop making suggestions on how to arrange the room, what the bass player (not me) should be doing/playing, how the lady singer should be singing, and songs we weren't doing but should and how we could split time at his house. He had been the BL for his band, was tired of all that, but literally COULD NOT step out of the BL role. We told him he was in, then later rescinded the offer. Ug.

I played at a blues jam where the drummer and bass player were hired hands by the host Drummer was really really good. A pro. Bass player was good too. Bass asked me how songs should go (or how I wanted to play them) a nice personable guy. I wouldn't have known his as more than a hobbiest from his easy going manner. Drummer was phoning it in. Watched the TV off to the side during the jam. Never said a word to any of the players, didn't look like he was having fun. Took strict breaks at 45 min mark. Just gave me this vibe he was not there for the camaraderie of the jam, more for the check. Really made me uncomfrotable, even. I talked to some others and they've had similar experiences. Totally, could hack the drumming part, but I'd never wanna hire him if I needed a drummer.
 
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