I'll plead guilty, but home audio electronics with massive distortion (e.g., SET amplifiers), amplifiers not coming close to specified power, ragged frequency response speakers, etc., can easily be eliminated from consideration.
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Why no frequency response plots for bass cabs?
- Thread starter leonard
- Start date
- Feb 12, 2006
- 60,986
- 5
- 220,768
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- Development Engineer-Mesa Boogie, Development Engineer-Genzler (pedals), Product Support-Genz Benz
While eating pizza, drinking Mountain Dew and writing their manifestos between their weekly bathing…
Because a bass cab is about music PROduction, not music REPROduction. For music PROduction, I don't care anything at all about a frequency response plot because I'm concerned with how it makes my bass sound--it's part of the list of things that go into making my bass sound the way I want it to. For music REPROduction, I want to accurately reproduce a signal and a frequency response plot tells me something about what the speaker will do.
- Mar 19, 2013
- 1,612
- 2,694
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- If only I were that good....
Correct. The cost incurred would likely be greater than any real increase in revenue that could be linked to having these produced and kept available.
The plots are available for the drivers (yes I know OEM might be altered a bit) but it becomes a different ballgame when put in a cab. If the cab manufacturers show theirs, they will be shooting themselves in the foot. First of all they will be exposing their trade secret. Two their testing environment is different from the environment the cabs will perform in the real world, because each use case will be different. Then the consumers specially those that know something to be dangerous will conclude otherwise and will publish their "non peer reviewed not repeatable" findings on the internet.
Even with studio monitors, they are a starting guideline, because my room setup is not studio grade so does not matter if I get the top end monitor. And speaking of studios even the pro grammy award winning guys have all different setups and some are even genre specific. Rudy Van Gelder setup will not be equal Ocean Way and the same Yamaha will perform different on each venue. Same with mics.
Most of us are musicians here and most of the info goes over our heads anyway for good reason but that does not make us stupid. After all in the end, we buy what works for our specific situation and in a lot of cases we are budget constrained. That means that manufactures can abuse this metric to sell. "Pyles are as good Genzler cabs" statements will proliferate.
Furthermore I really think that a bass guitar is more than 50 percent a rhythm instrument so getting overwhelmed by the cabinets frequency plots which is related to pitch, timbre and tone -It is just part of the equation on qualifying if a gear component will work for me.
Even with studio monitors, they are a starting guideline, because my room setup is not studio grade so does not matter if I get the top end monitor. And speaking of studios even the pro grammy award winning guys have all different setups and some are even genre specific. Rudy Van Gelder setup will not be equal Ocean Way and the same Yamaha will perform different on each venue. Same with mics.
Most of us are musicians here and most of the info goes over our heads anyway for good reason but that does not make us stupid. After all in the end, we buy what works for our specific situation and in a lot of cases we are budget constrained. That means that manufactures can abuse this metric to sell. "Pyles are as good Genzler cabs" statements will proliferate.
Furthermore I really think that a bass guitar is more than 50 percent a rhythm instrument so getting overwhelmed by the cabinets frequency plots which is related to pitch, timbre and tone -It is just part of the equation on qualifying if a gear component will work for me.
Someone else can worry about that stuff. My only focus is on playing bass a little better this week than I did last week.
Not anymore. You can download the Room EQ Wizard platform for free , get a calibrated USB mic from a reputable vender like Cross Spectrum Labs for $100 and change, and you’re in business. Or, you can send them the mic of your preference to calibrate.
Regards,
Wayne A. Pflughaupt
Pedulla Club #45 Unique Arrangements of Hymns, P&W Standards, and Original Tunes
Administrator, Official Tobias Club #133
Administrator, Fretless Club #943
Big Cabs Club #23
My Basses
My Rig: Stage and FOH Friendly
Pedulla Club #45
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Blame it on marketing.
A lot also has to do with the ambient acoustics (aka "the room") - which is a variable that can't be duplicated and represented by pure data points.
I don’t know if anything will change because it’s too easy for manufacturers to keep publishing specs that may or may not be accurate. Put some numbers in the spec table, add some flowery adjectives and a good photo or two and viola - it’s a product. If there was enough of an outcry from customers that might help.
I was shocked when I learned that Ampeg and Acoustic engineers made better cabs than I did. 
I was thinking it would be cool to have an extra speaker cab I could accessorize with, to be able to play by itself or add an ext to my Acoustic B200... so I put together a 112 cab and specwise, it looks like it should connect to my weird B200 series output and add to its sound, but it doesn't. When I connect it, it's like nothing really happens. On the other hand, when I connect the same combo amp to my Ampeg 212 and feed it less power (Ampeg cab 8 ohms / janky home cab 4 ohms), the Ampeg + B200 sounds clearly louder.
I plugged in the speaker data on eminence's website, used port caculators and stuff... the cab looks like it should be good. And I think it actually is good. It just isn't good together. I have no idea why. But it certainly drove home the point for me, that there is more to it than generally figuring out a box that's tuned to your lowest string.
I was thinking it would be cool to have an extra speaker cab I could accessorize with, to be able to play by itself or add an ext to my Acoustic B200... so I put together a 112 cab and specwise, it looks like it should connect to my weird B200 series output and add to its sound, but it doesn't. When I connect it, it's like nothing really happens. On the other hand, when I connect the same combo amp to my Ampeg 212 and feed it less power (Ampeg cab 8 ohms / janky home cab 4 ohms), the Ampeg + B200 sounds clearly louder.
I plugged in the speaker data on eminence's website, used port caculators and stuff... the cab looks like it should be good. And I think it actually is good. It just isn't good together. I have no idea why. But it certainly drove home the point for me, that there is more to it than generally figuring out a box that's tuned to your lowest string.
You can’t do accurate low frequency measurements in a regular room, despite what you might want to believe. The mic you can kinda fudge, but it will never equal a B&K mic.
- Feb 12, 2006
- 60,986
- 5
- 220,768
- Disclosures
- Development Engineer-Mesa Boogie, Development Engineer-Genzler (pedals), Product Support-Genz Benz
Then you would be shocked to discover how poor the accuracy is with that method compared to doing it the proper way. It is a great way to develop misleading data and conclusions however.
- Feb 12, 2006
- 60,986
- 5
- 220,768
- Disclosures
- Development Engineer-Mesa Boogie, Development Engineer-Genzler (pedals), Product Support-Genz Benz
It will get you an accurate measurement in the room at the location of the mic. No one pretends it’s more than that – that’s why it’s called an in-room measurement. It could be useful to people wanting to compare different cabinets, and perhaps see if what they hear shows up on a graph. Or see if what they hear in Room A vs. Room B shows in the graphs. Good, cheap educational tool - not to mention, it’s just plain fun.
Regards,
Wayne A. Pflughaupt
Pedulla Club #45 Unique Arrangements of Hymns, P&W Standards, and Original Tunes
Administrator, Official Tobias Club #133
Administrator, Fretless Club #943
Big Cabs Club #23
My Basses
My Rig: Stage and FOH Friendly
Pedulla Club #45
It will get you an accurate measurement in the room at the location of the mic. No one pretends it’s more than that – that’s why it’s called an in-room measurement. It could be useful to people wanting to compare different cabinets, and perhaps see if what they hear shows up on a graph. Or see if what they hear in Room A vs. Room B shows in the graphs. Good, cheap educational tool - not to mention, it’s just plain fun.
Regards,
Wayne A. Pflughaupt
Pedulla Club #45 Unique Arrangements of Hymns, P&W Standards, and Original Tunes
Administrator, Official Tobias Club #133
Administrator, Fretless Club #943
Big Cabs Club #23
My Basses
My Rig: Stage and FOH Friendly
Pedulla Club #45
Believe what you want…
Probably for the same reason someone like me wouldn’t give such a graph more than a cursory glance if even that much - because I’d have absolutely no idea what it was supposed to be showing me. 
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My brother's an acoustical engineer. He's worked for Jensen, Shure & EV.
He explained "plots" to me once - I had to take a nap afterwards!
I'm the dumb one. I prefer to just use my ears.
He explained "plots" to me once - I had to take a nap afterwards!
I'm the dumb one. I prefer to just use my ears.
- Feb 12, 2006
- 60,986
- 5
- 220,768
- Disclosures
- Development Engineer-Mesa Boogie, Development Engineer-Genzler (pedals), Product Support-Genz Benz
What you are missing is that the room is not results that can compared with other measurements.It will get you an accurate measurement in the room at the location of the mic. No one pretends it’s more than that – that’s why it’s called an in-room measurement. It could be useful to people wanting to compare different cabinets, and perhaps see if what they hear shows up on a graph. Or see if what they hear in Room A vs. Room B shows in the graphs. Good, cheap educational tool - not to mention, it’s just plain fun.
Regards,
Wayne A. Pflughaupt
Pedulla Club #45 Unique Arrangements of Hymns, P&W Standards, and Original Tunes
Administrator, Official Tobias Club #133
Administrator, Fretless Club #943
Big Cabs Club #23
My Basses
My Rig: Stage and FOH Friendly
Pedulla Club #45
Measuring the same cabinet in 2 different rooms (or different positions in the same room) and getting 2 different measurements means that the measurement is not an accurate representation of the cabinet itself. It’s misleading no matter how much you want to believe your measurements. It’s fine for a hobbiest, but not something other people will rely on to make a decision.
I’m pretty experienced with acoustic measurements, mic guy is 10 times as experienced as I am (I know his background and work). You don’t know you are arguing with.
