Why no frequency response plots for bass cabs?

[leonard]

Becoz stoopid bass player can't read them right?
Players be like: Oh no, there's no fundamental! It's not a straight line!
Bad for biznez.

We can get them for microphones and studio monitors. And speakers. But not for bass cabs.

@agedhorse @alexclaber

 

[WayneP]

For all the reasons you stated. That was the general consensus in a recent discussion on the topic.

Regards,
Wayne A. Pflughaupt

Pedulla Club #45 Unique Arrangements of Hymns, P&W Standards, and Original Tunes
Administrator, Official Tobias Club #133
Administrator, Fretless Club #943
Big Cabs Club #23
My Basses
My Rig: Stage and FOH Friendly
Pedulla Club #45

 

[agedhorse]

For all the reasons you stated. That was the general consensus in a recent discussion on the topic.

Regards,
Wayne A. Pflughaupt

Pedulla Club #45 Unique Arrangements of Hymns, P&W Standards, and Original Tunes
Administrator, Official Tobias Club #133
Administrator, Fretless Club #943
Big Cabs Club #23
My Basses
My Rig: Stage and FOH Friendly
Pedulla Club #45

Plus most players can’t associate a plot to a desired voicing, and off axis plots are essential to how a cabinet will work in the real world.

IME, it will just lead to more false (and ridiculous) conclusions.

 

[Killing Floor]

Would that design plot influence your buying decision? Or would you buy the one that sounds better to your ears?

 

[alexclaber]

The more I learn about this, the more I come to the conclusion that the plots would need to be so comprehensive and so complicated that the only people able to really understand them properly are the ones designing the cabs. There's a Tower of Power song about this.

 

[gtirard]

Becoz stoopid bass player can't read them right?

As a bass player with no technical background, I'm smart enough to know that I wouldn't be able to interpret them in a meaningful way. So I'm not stoopid, but it would be useless for me. If I was really stoopid, I would think I'm able to read them, and I would draw false conclusion (that would be even worst).

The more I read @agedhorse and @Wasnex, the less I care about products specs - they mean nothing.
- First I understood that the power rating doesn't tell you how loud a cab is, at that time I was looking at the sensitivity, a much better indicator of a cab's loudness,
- Then I realized that each brands has its own way to make the measures, so even the sensitivity isn't meaningful,
- It's even worst if you look at the frequency range,
- So let's not even talk about frequency response plots…

EDIT: you would need an independant expert (like a specialized journalist) to make his own measurements of different brands using the same protocol, and analyse them to explain how we should interpret them. But even that wouldn't tell you what's important: how does a cab sound?

 

[Jefenator]

Knowledge is power - but power corrupts.

 

[edervjo]

I poured over so many tech sheets, but then would find and play through what I read about, so I leaned what sound that graph made. I learned how to correlate what I saw, to what I should expect to hear. I EQ a room by ear, but use a RTA to verify. I calibrated myself to an extent.
Years ago when EV first put out the PA Bible I started practicing this technique as I was enamored with all the charts and graphs explaining WHY I was hearing what I was out any given system in any given room.
The trick is marketing people will use technical terminology with no context, which turns it all to the Tower of Babel, where nobody understands anything.

 

[leonard]

Would that design plot influence your buying decision? Or would you buy the one that sounds better to your ears?

Yes, it would be best to try them out. Still it would be helpful to see the plot.

Many interesting brands like Mesa and Barefaced are not available for testing around here. Ampeg and Markbass are available. Aguilar occasionally.

 

[gtirard]

Yes, it would be best to try them out. Still it would be helpful to see the plot.

Many interesting brands like Mesa and Barefaced are not available for testing around here. Ampeg and Markbass are available. Aguilar occasionally.

Congrats, you're probably one in a million

 

[Wisebass]

Hi leohard

Becoz stoopid bass player can't read them right?

No! It's a world wide conspiracy against bass players.

We can get them for microphones and studio monitors. And speakers. But not for bass cabs.

They have been doing this for decades!

Wait! It's a plot?




Wise(b)ass

 

[agedhorse]

Yes, it's been done for decades with mics and many false conclusions have been drawn from those plots too. Especially when (for directional mics) the distance is not specified.

 

[Nebadon2000]

Still it would be helpful to see the plot.

Sure if you had plots not only in anacoic chamber but for your practice room, rehearsal space, all the clubs you play Etc. Along with different angles, distances and db levels

PS: If it wasn't strictly regulated deceptive Marketers would have a fielday

 

[LastJaguar]

Early home audio had the same issues as raised here. However, over time, measurement standards were set, independent measuring companies popped up, and consumers learned to read them and correlate with sound. They are now largely used to exclude choices with listening being the final arbiter. I can see no reason why the same cannot be done here.

 

[leonard]

No! It's a world wide conspiracy against bass players.

This is the real reason. The deep state.

 

[agedhorse]

Early home audio had the same issues as raised here. However, over time, measurement standards were set, independent measuring companies popped up, and consumers learned to read them and correlate with sound. They are now largely used to exclude choices with listening being the final arbiter. I can see no reason why the same cannot be done here.

Not really, the same crazy conclusions are being made by those educated beyond their own intelligence. It has generally evened the playing field a little, but not all that much in actuality.

 

[And I]

what are the chances that academic music and/or bass guitar teachers will start teaching psychacoustics? still zero...

 

[dbsfgyd1]

Would that design plot influence your buying decision? Or would you buy the one that sounds better to your ears?

‘Good question. Absent any other information and or a real world tryout, I’m sure it could be useful. One would need to understand the information however.

 

[BuddhaFingas]

Maybe the mfgs don't want to have to deal with contrarian wisenheimers telling them the plots are not right, and publishing half-hour videos 'proving' it from their mom's basement?

 

[micguy]

To do a good measurement of low frequency response, the room and the gear to do that well is a very expensive proposition. And then explaining what it all means to the general public? I'd understand, but I'm a bit unusual.

You can, for a LOT less money, measure the Thiele-Small parameters of your driver(s), and do a simulation of the system that will get you a very good approximation of the low frequency performance. Mids and highs, not so much, but those are fairly easily measured.