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Why no sharps/flats?

the_hook

the_hook

Apr 9, 2008
930
83
Toronto
#1
I've tried to read various books and online resources (and DVDs) to try to understand music theory. I get only to a certain point and then I'm completey lost.

One thing I've found consistently is that there is no explanation of why there are no sharps/flats between notes B-C and E-F.

Does anyone know why this is?
 
#2
I'm going to assume that you're talking about a C major (Ionian mode) scale.

With major scales, the general pattern is that the notes are all whole tones (with a sharp flat between the notes), except for between the 3rd and 4th note, as well as the 7th to 8th note.

This is just the characteristic of what makes a certain mode sound they way it does.

In cases of F# Major, there will be sharps all over the place, but the underlying idea of semitones between the median and subdominant (3 and 4), and the Leading Note to the Tonic (7th to 8th) will always be there.

Of course, this is just for Major scales. Minor scales, and other modes will have different patterns.

For example, minor (harmonic) scales have a semitone only between teh supertonic and median (2 and 3) and dominant and submedian (5th and 6th note). Minor Melodic scales get a bit trickier, as it depends on whether you're ascending or descending the scale.

Yeah... years of piano theory, and this is the only thing I learned. Time well spent. Yay.
 
#3
Well for starters, because there are only 12 notes in the chromatic scale, not 14. The half steps falling between B and C, and E and F, cause C major and A minor to have no sharps or flats. Why it's these two scales specifically and not two others, I'm not sure.
 
#4
The notes C,D,E,F,G,A,B form the major scale. It just so happens that in the major scale there's only half a step between E-F and B-C, while there's a step between all the other notes. This is just how the major scale works. If our whole tonal system was not based on the major scale, the "holes" would be different.

Heard of the circle of fifths? Start with any note and keep going up a fifth. Do this 6 times, so that you pick 7 notes out of 12. If you look at the notes you picked, they form the same pattern as (one of the modes of) the major scale. This is not a coincidence.
 
#5
Don't waste time with asking why. Truth is, nobody knows why. It's just the way it's been done for centuries and it's not going to change, so no sense trying to figure it out from a logical standpoint. But if you want to apply logic, think of it as a "given."
 
#6
JimmyM said:
Don't waste time with asking why. Truth is, nobody knows why. It's just the way it's been done for centuries and it's not going to change, so no sense trying to figure it out from a logical standpoint. But if you want to apply logic, think of it as a "given."
Click to expand...


The 'why' is because it sounds good. What's really going to flip your lid is why does a Cb Major key exist?? :confused:
 
#8
Tonal systems began with minor before major, like with the Gregorian monks, to my knowledge. That's why if you start on A and go alphabetically you'll have a minor scale. Relative major was really used later, after discovering major tetrachords (four notes that create a W-W-H pattern). This "major tetrachord" was part of the minor scale, so C major became the basis for that with no sharps and flats. Two major tetrachords separated by a whole step creates a major scale. Therefore each tone in the scale would receive a different letter name in alphabetical order. The resulting pattern is W-W-H-W-W-W-H. In the key of C, which has no sharps or flats, the half steps are between E-F and B-C. This makes the use of enharmonic spellings of these notes not as common or as easy to understand. E# is the same note as F. Fb is the same note as E. B# is the same as C. Cb is the same as B. Hope that helps.;)
 
#9
DaveAceofBass said:
Tonal systems began with minor before major, like with the Gregorian monks, to my knowledge. That's why if you start on A and go alphabetically you'll have a minor scale. Relative major was really used later, after discovering major tetrachords (four notes that create a W-W-H pattern). This "major tetrachord" was part of the minor scale, so C major became the basis for that with no sharps and flats. Two major tetrachords separated by a whole step creates a major scale. Therefore each tone in the scale would receive a different letter name in alphabetical order. The resulting pattern is W-W-H-W-W-W-H. In the key of C, which has no sharps or flats, the half steps are between E-F and B-C. This makes the use of enharmonic spellings of these notes not as common or as easy to understand. E# is the same note as F. Fb is the same note as E. B# is the same as C. Cb is the same as B. Hope that helps.;)
Click to expand...

This is the same explanation I got from my music teacher.
 
#10
JimmyM said:
Don't waste time with asking why. ....think of it as a "given."
Click to expand...

and move on to the next theory lesson. Memorize everything and practice/play as much as possible. Think of it all as a "given" to start with.

The point is to learn the stuff and apply it to music. Have fun and enjoy it.

I mean, if you tried to understand the material science and physics of building an automobile tire it would be a long time before you started driving. Some people never would. You don't want to be that "guy".
 
#12
I think of it as those 2 half steps being the distinction/color between all the different modes.

Without them everyone would be playing the same whole tone scale for everything and chords would be all wonky...and a piano wouldn't look like a piano.

Wikipedia:

The whole tone scale has no leading tone and because all tones are the same distance apart, "no single tone stands out, [and] the scale creates a blurred, indistinct effect".[1] This effect is especially emphasized by the fact that triads built on such scale tones are augmented. Indeed, one can play all six tones of a whole tone scale simply with two augmented triads whose roots are a major second apart. Since they are symmetrical, whole tone scales do not give a strong impression of the tonic or tonality.
Click to expand...

Also take into consideration that there are Arabian scales with like 22 notes in them that make absolutely no sense to us, but allow them to produce some crazy melodies...but they don't really use harmonies like we do, because of the way their musical system is set up.

..just keep learning it'll start making more sense.
 

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