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Why not Schroeder?
- Thread starter Musicbiz60
- Start date
I own a Schroeder Mini 12+L and a Bergantino HDN-212.
My Schroeder is rated 500 watts RMS at 4ohm. My Mini 12+L handles the Low B very well, and has a ton of clarity. I have my Ashdown MiBass 500 on the Schroeder and Darkglass Microtubes 900 on the Berg. I worked hard to get them voiced similarly.
I do find that I have have to boost the lows a little bit higher on the head that is driving the Mini 12+L, but it handles it well.
My Schroeder is rated 500 watts RMS at 4ohm. My Mini 12+L handles the Low B very well, and has a ton of clarity. I have my Ashdown MiBass 500 on the Schroeder and Darkglass Microtubes 900 on the Berg. I worked hard to get them voiced similarly.
I do find that I have have to boost the lows a little bit higher on the head that is driving the Mini 12+L, but it handles it well.
I think it will take a while for them to get past their "all mids and no boom" reputation if that is no longer the case.
I will admit that of the 3 different Schroeders that I have owned, this one is by far my favorite. I always passed that off as I bought those used, and the previous owners swapped out the speakers. Maybe that's what they were trying to resolve... who knows. But this one? I dig...
I don't know the history of what Jorge has done at Schroeder. I believe that the designs have changed of course.
At present, at least from his site, B&C drivers seem to be the choice. I think they are superb, and can't even hear an over-abundance of mids or lack of bass. Just the opposite, but to each their zone.
Schroeder Cabs, IIRC, was the absolute darling of TB shortly after they came out, incredible rave reviews, as if they were
the greatest thing since canned beer.
Then-It seemed a "dark cloud" appeared, there was talk of the enclosures being particle-board, inferior, etc. etc.
I believe that storm has passed.
Not sure where they are on the radar now- I see lots of favorable comments, many unsatisfied users too I guess.
Isn't that about the same w/ any gear?
I work a Bergie 410, a Genz-Benz Neox 212, an Ashdown Neo 15, a Custom 410 with Celestions, a Buster Wedge with 210 EVM Black Widows, and the amazing SICA Driver within my AER AMP 1 combo.
My 212PL is RIGHT up there.
At present, at least from his site, B&C drivers seem to be the choice. I think they are superb, and can't even hear an over-abundance of mids or lack of bass. Just the opposite, but to each their zone.
Schroeder Cabs, IIRC, was the absolute darling of TB shortly after they came out, incredible rave reviews, as if they were
the greatest thing since canned beer.
Then-It seemed a "dark cloud" appeared, there was talk of the enclosures being particle-board, inferior, etc. etc.
I believe that storm has passed.
Not sure where they are on the radar now- I see lots of favorable comments, many unsatisfied users too I guess.
Isn't that about the same w/ any gear?
I work a Bergie 410, a Genz-Benz Neox 212, an Ashdown Neo 15, a Custom 410 with Celestions, a Buster Wedge with 210 EVM Black Widows, and the amazing SICA Driver within my AER AMP 1 combo.
My 212PL is RIGHT up there.
I had a pair of early Schroeders, a 1210 and a 1010, probably right around 2006/2007 that I got them. I remember them being VERY loud - with a huge face-smacking midrange spike that I could never dial out, and equal parts bottom and top end I could never quite dial in. At the time I was gigging a lot in downtown Chicago, and the concept of a portable, screamingly loud, small-cab solution really made sense to me.
I'm not entirely sure how the designs have evolved and changed over the years, but it looks like it's migrated away from the angled baffles and some of the other original attributes. I've been using a pair of Fearful 15/6/1's for the past five or six years - definitely the opposite direction from a tone goal perspective. I'm curious what the latest of Jorg's cabinets sound like.
But through the whole experience - I've also come to realize how much more natural sounding subtractive EQ is.
I'm not entirely sure how the designs have evolved and changed over the years, but it looks like it's migrated away from the angled baffles and some of the other original attributes. I've been using a pair of Fearful 15/6/1's for the past five or six years - definitely the opposite direction from a tone goal perspective. I'm curious what the latest of Jorg's cabinets sound like.
But through the whole experience - I've also come to realize how much more natural sounding subtractive EQ is.
I gigged both a pair of the 212 front baffle cabs and a pair of the 15+L's for a while. The 15+L's lasted the longest.
They all seemed like they had a fairly extreme HPF built into the voicing that wasn't my favorite for bass guitar. Schlepp-ability is A++++. The 15+L was the best cab I have ever gigged for amplifying upright, as that "built in HPF" was perfect for getting rid of the boominess to let the instrument speak. If I had more amplified upright gigs, I would have kept one of those. Jorg is a super nice cat. (Footnote: I still have a GB Shuttle 6.0 that I bought from him almost 10 years ago, here on TB!)
They all seemed like they had a fairly extreme HPF built into the voicing that wasn't my favorite for bass guitar. Schlepp-ability is A++++. The 15+L was the best cab I have ever gigged for amplifying upright, as that "built in HPF" was perfect for getting rid of the boominess to let the instrument speak. If I had more amplified upright gigs, I would have kept one of those. Jorg is a super nice cat. (Footnote: I still have a GB Shuttle 6.0 that I bought from him almost 10 years ago, here on TB!)
Oh yea why not Shroes? They're just so....2000's.
Seriously, my idea of what I think sounds best is a moving target. It moves, to some degree, with the advance of the technology. And the amount of investment. I like great gear. Champagne tastes and all that.
Awhile back I played a gig with tired sounding GK rig that surprised me, not in a good way, as I had not played a generic GK rig in a while. this rig in the pic sounded better than that backline by far.
Seriously, my idea of what I think sounds best is a moving target. It moves, to some degree, with the advance of the technology. And the amount of investment. I like great gear. Champagne tastes and all that.
Awhile back I played a gig with tired sounding GK rig that surprised me, not in a good way, as I had not played a generic GK rig in a while. this rig in the pic sounded better than that backline by far.
... because everyone likes anecdotal stories...
When I purchased my Mini 12+L cab, I never ran it very hard because our band always had a really good monitor setup where we played and there was no way I was going to be able to compete with 2000 watts of subs that lined the front of the stage.
As a result, I created a mid heavy tone so I could add articulation to the subs, then sent a non-eq DI to the house. Several of my bass friends Schroeder because "it sounds like a bee..." - I think that was a direct quote.
So, I bought some bassists over to check out some new gear and put things through their paces. As I stated before, I have an AB box so I can switch between Ashdown MiBass 550/Schroeder Mini 12+L and Darkglass Microtubes 900/Bergantino HDN-212. Because the Schroeder goes to more gigs and practices, it sits on top, and I generally have the "Deep" button engaged on the MiBass. It gives me some additional bottom end and allows me to run both my bass and amp flat. (Save the tweaking until it's needed).
The one that said the Schroeder sounded like a bee was impressed by the tone. He would frequently ask which head he was playing through.
Now.. we were not playing at outdoor venue volumes. The Berg, being a 212 is noticeably louder, but for most of what I need when I gig... which is being able to be heard on stage - I'm pretty happy. We were playing the Hard Rock Cafe, and the sound guy asked me to turn down a bit because my stage volume was a little higher than desired. My lesson from that was that an amp wedge (to tilt the amp upwards) isn't enough, the 112 works best on an amp stand.
When I purchased my Mini 12+L cab, I never ran it very hard because our band always had a really good monitor setup where we played and there was no way I was going to be able to compete with 2000 watts of subs that lined the front of the stage.
As a result, I created a mid heavy tone so I could add articulation to the subs, then sent a non-eq DI to the house. Several of my bass friends Schroeder because "it sounds like a bee..." - I think that was a direct quote.
So, I bought some bassists over to check out some new gear and put things through their paces. As I stated before, I have an AB box so I can switch between Ashdown MiBass 550/Schroeder Mini 12+L and Darkglass Microtubes 900/Bergantino HDN-212. Because the Schroeder goes to more gigs and practices, it sits on top, and I generally have the "Deep" button engaged on the MiBass. It gives me some additional bottom end and allows me to run both my bass and amp flat. (Save the tweaking until it's needed).
The one that said the Schroeder sounded like a bee was impressed by the tone. He would frequently ask which head he was playing through.
Now.. we were not playing at outdoor venue volumes. The Berg, being a 212 is noticeably louder, but for most of what I need when I gig... which is being able to be heard on stage - I'm pretty happy. We were playing the Hard Rock Cafe, and the sound guy asked me to turn down a bit because my stage volume was a little higher than desired. My lesson from that was that an amp wedge (to tilt the amp upwards) isn't enough, the 112 works best on an amp stand.
I have a Bergie HS410 & have had occasion to speak w/ Jim. Full-on support ( I had a question) great guy.
I have a Genz-Benz Neox 210, a fantastic cab. When G-B was around they were known for excellence in CS.
When I rec'd my Schro 212PL, I had a issue, slight hum from the driver. Jorge paid for shipping back to his shop, replaced the driver & shipped it back, all w/in a week. Since then I've said it before, will say again, no probs, & that cab is up there w/ the best. IMO YMMV, etc.
I have no doubt that there are players not happy with past/present Schroeder cabs. No worries; no one's getting burned!
There will always be players/posters here that do not like one thing or another.
Ampeg comes to mind. Lot of slag against that gear on TB, despite the mighty Jimmy M.!
"It's mud; dirt, NG!"
At one time, I used a 3PRO w/ an SVT-15HE & and SVT48HE. I loved this rig, did many many engagements w/ it, and saw lots of girlies dancing to da bass, and lots of guys playing air bass, wishin' they were me on that stage!
.
IOW, I was quite satisfied with that set-up, & except for the size of the 3-PRO compared to what you can use today, could still be.
Yet- I have never read such dis-respect for Ampeg, anywhere more than on TB. Hopefully I think that's changing- V4, new porta-flex & such.
Shoot- In Europe they are considered GOLD- (imported I guess), at least from what the players & shops told me during my travels to & engagements in the UK.
Posted on TB once: "I can fart louder than a 3PRO!" Is that right? Besides being a stoopid, juvenile, and dis-tasteful (to me) statement, the 3PRO had/has a very good DI, and I never lacked for volume or headroom, even w/out FOH at mid/small venues.
Rant over! I like my Schroeder cab very much, and Opinions, including mine I'm sorry to say.....
I have a Genz-Benz Neox 210, a fantastic cab. When G-B was around they were known for excellence in CS.
When I rec'd my Schro 212PL, I had a issue, slight hum from the driver. Jorge paid for shipping back to his shop, replaced the driver & shipped it back, all w/in a week. Since then I've said it before, will say again, no probs, & that cab is up there w/ the best. IMO YMMV, etc.
I have no doubt that there are players not happy with past/present Schroeder cabs. No worries; no one's getting burned!
There will always be players/posters here that do not like one thing or another.
Ampeg comes to mind. Lot of slag against that gear on TB, despite the mighty Jimmy M.!
"It's mud; dirt, NG!"
At one time, I used a 3PRO w/ an SVT-15HE & and SVT48HE. I loved this rig, did many many engagements w/ it, and saw lots of girlies dancing to da bass, and lots of guys playing air bass, wishin' they were me on that stage!
.IOW, I was quite satisfied with that set-up, & except for the size of the 3-PRO compared to what you can use today, could still be.
Yet- I have never read such dis-respect for Ampeg, anywhere more than on TB. Hopefully I think that's changing- V4, new porta-flex & such.
Shoot- In Europe they are considered GOLD- (imported I guess), at least from what the players & shops told me during my travels to & engagements in the UK.
Posted on TB once: "I can fart louder than a 3PRO!" Is that right? Besides being a stoopid, juvenile, and dis-tasteful (to me) statement, the 3PRO had/has a very good DI, and I never lacked for volume or headroom, even w/out FOH at mid/small venues.
Rant over! I like my Schroeder cab very much, and Opinions, including mine I'm sorry to say.....
I have a Bergie HS410 & have had occasion to speak w/ Jim. Full-on support ( I had a question) great guy.
I have a Genz-Benz Neox 210, a fantastic cab. When G-B was around they were known for excellence in CS.
When I rec'd my Schro 212PL, I had a issue, slight hum from the driver. Jorge paid for shipping back to his shop, replaced the driver & shipped it back, all w/in a week. Since then I've said it before, will say again, no probs, & that cab is up there w/ the best. IMO YMMV, etc.
I have no doubt that there are players not happy with past/present Schroeder cabs. No worries; no one's getting burned!
There will always be players/posters here that do not like one thing or another.
Ampeg comes to mind. Lot of slag against that gear on TB, despite the mighty Jimmy M.!
"It's mud; dirt, NG!"
At one time, I used a 3PRO w/ an SVT-15HE & and SVT48HE. I loved this rig, did many many engagements w/ it, and saw lots of girlies dancing to da bass, and lots of guys playing air bass, wishin' they were me on that stage!
IOW, I was quite satisfied with that set-up, & except for the size of the 3-PRO compared to what you can use today, could still be.
Yet- I have never read such dis-respect for Ampeg, anywhere more than on TB. Hopefully I think that's changing- V4, new porta-flex & such.
Shoot- In Europe they are considered GOLD- (imported I guess), at least from what the players & shops told me during my travels to & engagements in the UK.
Posted on TB once: "I can fart louder than a 3PRO!" Is that right? Besides being a stoopid, juvenile, and dis-tasteful (to me) statement, the 3PRO had/has a very good DI, and I never lacked for volume or headroom, even w/out FOH at mid/small venues.
Rant over! I like my Schroeder cab very much, and Opinions, including mine I'm sorry to say.....
I toured Germany in the Army and all things American were considered GOLD. I can understand why Ampeg has the sterling reputation. Besides, the few who dislike Ampeg won't be missed-- it's still the number one bass amp on backline and many nightclub stages in the world. The SVT 810s just never really die. Just like the fridges they emulate, never need the Maytag man-- except for tubes now and then.
As for Shroeder, I've had an inkling to want to try them for a while, I'm in the midst of selling off some gear to buy the Schroeders. Also, I have to mention, I did like the AudioKinesis cabs quite a bit and loved the interaction on their thread. But, hey it's TB and our job to keep having GAS and trying out all cabs, right?
I toured Germany in the Army and all things American were considered GOLD. I can understand why Ampeg has the sterling reputation. Besides, the few who dislike Ampeg won't be missed-- it's still the number one bass amp on backline and many nightclub stages in the world. The SVT 810s just never really die. Just like the fridges they emulate, never need the Maytag man-- except for tubes now and then.
As for Shroeder, I've had an inkling to want to try them for a while, I'm in the midst of selling off some gear to buy the Schroeders. Also, I have to mention, I did like the AudioKinesis cabs quite a bit and loved the interaction on their thread. But, hey it's TB and our job to keep having GAS and trying out all cabs, right?
Not to hi-jack the "Why not Schroeder?" thing, but... it's all 6 degrees of separation, right?
No one can dispute Ampeg's absolute leadership in Bass amplification; I mean B-15? SVT?? 'Fridges???
Can't be done. Yet, there are people who quite understandably never cared for Ampeg, think it is mud, or at the very least not their thing. No worries; opinions....
Relation to Schro: I would think that if a player bought a cab from Jorge and hated it, Jorge would take it back. I could be wrong, but I truly think he is so into having cabs built that bear his name, he would not even want a player to use the gear if he wasn't delighted with it.
The older designs of his cabinets are built differently than the current crop.
Those who didn't/don't get what they want should not use them; why would they?
Agreed brother. However, hope not to get flamed but we know some people would complain if you gave them a brand new rope to hang themselves! LOLNot to hi-jack the "Why not Schroeder?" thing, but... it's all 6 degrees of separation, right?
No one can dispute Ampeg's absolute leadership in Bass amplification; I mean B-15? SVT?? 'Fridges???
Can't be done. Yet, there are people who quite understandably never cared for Ampeg, think it is mud, or at the very least not their thing. No worries; opinions....
Relation to Schro: I would think that if a player bought a cab from Jorge and hated it, Jorge would take it back. I could be wrong, but I truly think he is so into having cabs built that bear his name, he would not even want a player to use the gear if he wasn't delighted with it.
The older designs of his cabinets are built differently than the current crop.
Those who didn't/don't get what they want should not use them; why would they?
That's one thing about TB. Strong opinions on both sides thrive here. Hey-- spirited debate is good, yes?
Markbass hadn't brought out the matching NY121 cabs when I needed an add-on cab for my little CMD121, but I found a little Schroeder 1212L at a great price. It seems to have about the same sound quality as the Markbass and it is so small and light for a 2x12! Both pieces fit in my Acura trunk and I have THREE loud Neo 12s and 500W for outdoor gigs. Very happyand impressed with what Jorge fit into that little cabinet.
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I recently got a 15PL, and I'm very happy with it. Is it a fEARful ? No, but I've discovered that that isn't the tone for me, and the 15PL has plenty of bottom and sits in the mix very well. I don't play in what I would call " loud " bands, and most of the time have FOH support. Great grab and go cab, with my Shuttle 6.2 head, and at age 69, that's important !
Agreed brother. However, hope not to get flamed but we know some people would complain if you gave them a brand new rope to hang themselves! LOL
That's one thing about TB. Strong opinions on both sides thrive here. Hey-- spirited debate is good, yes?
Right Awn!
And my biggest issue w/ describing Schro or any other piece of gear is that opinions are OK, sure.
But kinda not kewl to go right ahead & say e.g. that "these (Brand X) cabs are muddy, too mid-range-voiced, bad high freqs, yada-yada"
As if it were fact.
It's a 5 year old thread. Hijacking it would be kind of like kidnapping a homeless person. No disrespect intended to homeless people.Not to hi-jack the "Why not Schroeder?" thing, but... it's all 6 degrees of separation, right?
No one can dispute Ampeg's absolute leadership in Bass amplification; I mean B-15? SVT?? 'Fridges???
Can't be done. Yet, there are people who quite understandably never cared for Ampeg, think it is mud, or at the very least not their thing. No worries; opinions....
Relation to Schro: I would think that if a player bought a cab from Jorge and hated it, Jorge would take it back. I could be wrong, but I truly think he is so into having cabs built that bear his name, he would not even want a player to use the gear if he wasn't delighted with it.
The older designs of his cabinets are built differently than the current crop.
Those who didn't/don't get what they want should not use them; why would they?
Anyhow, Jorg is a super great cat, and a real asset to the bass community. He makes cabs that fill a very practical slot in the gigging toolbox.
Regarding Ampeg, it seems somewhat pointless to bicker about their gear here on TB; kind of like fleas arguing about which one owns the dog they're on. All I'll say about Ampeg is that I love showing up for backline provided gigs where there is a healthy SVT, but have not vibed with their more portable products. YMMV.
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