Why people hate HAZ Mutron III+? (clips)

[katri]

i really like the sound in the clips, although i would never have a use for it in anything i play

 

[Chris Ramlar]

Thank you Gashaponcito, but I guess you mean how did I record the clips, isn't it?

The chain is just my brazilian JB copy> Haz Mutron > Apogee Duet Interface > Mac (Logic).

best

Thanks! yeah it was how instead of who... bad english here...

 

[depalm]

i really like the sound in the clips, although i would never have a use for it in anything i play

Thanks anyway katri.
Just out of curiosity what kind of sound do you play?

best

 

[depalm]

It's definitely not true-bypass. The output buffer isn't very great either - Before using true bypass looping solutions, I definitely lost some tone when the Mu-Tron III+ was bypassed. Pretty much exactly my experience with the Musitronics as well...

Hey, I received an e-mail from Haz Labs:

From:[email protected]
Subject:Re: Mutron III+

> depalm wrote:
> Hi, I'd like to know if the Mutron III+ > True or Buffered Bypass?

> Thank you very much.

The Mu-tron III+ is a true bypass.

best

 

[scotch]

Hey, I received an e-mail from Haz Labs:

From:[email protected]
Subject:Re: Mutron III+

> depalm wrote:
> Hi, I'd like to know if the Mutron III+ > True or Buffered Bypass?

> Thank you very much.

The Mu-tron III+ is a true bypass.

best

Ummmm... they either don't know what true bypass is or are misleading you. Try using a III+ in bypass with no power connected or batteries. What do you get? No sound (because the output is buffered)

 

[5stringwonder]

nice clips! it sounds pretty good. great playing too. anyone has clips of the mutron III to compare? I actually think this sounds better than the AF-9

 

[katri]

Thanks anyway katri.
Just out of curiosity what kind of sound do you play?

best

i play kinda rock/post rock kinda stuff, pretty simple bass sounds really, just fuzz OD and some octave and delay when i get the pedals that i want

 

[The BurgerMeister]

Ummmm... they either don't know what true bypass is or are misleading you. Try using a III+ in bypass with no power connected or batteries. What do you get? No sound (because the output is buffered)

careful with your ! it's not really that simple.

here is a great article about True Bypass that everyone should read:
Invalid Link Removed

by the way: nice clips! that sounded pretty dang good to me! juicy!

 

[depalm]

careful with your ! it's not really that simple.

here is a great article about True Bypass that everyone should read:
Invalid Link Removed

by the way: nice clips! that sounded pretty dang good to me! juicy!

Thanks BurgerMeister!! Lots of doubts have been clarified with this article.

 

[scotch]

careful with your ! it's not really that simple.

here is a great article about True Bypass that everyone should read:
Invalid Link Removed

Allright, help me out here BurgerMeister...

I quite often quote the stinkfoot site as well. In fact I believe that my "claim" is backed up by Andreas page:
(in relation to removing power to test "true bypass")
"But - again - you can not use this test to verify that a pedal is true bypass, only that it isn't."

So, I agree, you cannot prove a pedal is tb by using the method I referenced, but you can test to see if it is not tb!

 

[Mark Olson]

I don't know if the HAZ is true bypass, but what I will say is that I didn't have a problem with it's bypass when I used it.

Also, as far as the sound goes, I've played the HAZ in front of other veteran bass players and they couldn't tell the difference between my HAZ and their original Mutron III's. Specifically I met a guy who played bass for Albert King (if you know who that is, blues legend) and he was a 40 year veteran of the bass, and he was impressed with my envelope filter sound.

 

[Mark Olson]

Oh, I also met a dude who is good friends with Billy Cox (bass player with Hendrix) who was so impressed with my filter sound with the HAZ and my playing he went and told Billy all about me

 

[The BurgerMeister]

Allright, help me out here BurgerMeister...

I quite often quote the stinkfoot site as well. In fact I believe that my "claim" is backed up by Andreas page:
(in relation to removing power to test "true bypass")
"But - again - you can not use this test to verify that a pedal is true bypass, only that it isn't."

So, I agree, you cannot prove a pedal is tb by using the method I referenced, but you can test to see if it is not tb!

can't really disagree with you! after all, you have a cool looking dog and seem to love the same drink i do!
i was referring to this part of the article:

It seems that no amount of information can kill this myth off... I got this from a review at Harmony Central:

One thing too...I think somewhere in here someone didn't know if this really was "true bypass"...it is. The way to tell, ALWAYS, is this, you take out the battery, you do NOT plug in power, and then you patch the guitar into the effect and out to the amp. If you have sound through the unit (obviously ONLY when the unit itself is in the off position) into the amp and out, it is true bypass. If not it is not and is buffering.

NOOO... (I hate internet screaming, but this really warrants the use of capital letters) YOU CAN NOT TEST FOR TRUE BYPASS BY REMOVING THE POWER! You will only learn if there are any active circuits in the direct signal path. But you will not learn wether or not the passive bypass connection (that passes signal when powerless) is a true bypass wiring or not.

and this:

If you really, really want to know if your effect has true bypass or not, you have to open the pedal up and trace the circuit. That's the only way to find out where the signal goes and doesn't go, when the pedal is off.

and, most importantly:

you only need to worry about it if you notice a degradation in your tone. Basically, if it works, don't fix it.

i would also recommend reading tech 21's article about bypass:

Invalid Link Removed

 

[scotch]

I definitely agree that the whole true-bypass thing has gotten a little out of control. At the same time, however, it is important to listen for changes & understand what is happening to your signal.

If your happy with your sound - don't sweat it! If you have experienced issues (as I have with the III+) then it becomes more important to consider the units bypass state.

The fact that the "no power test" cannot be used to test for true-bypass shouldn't be confused with the fact that it can be used to test for the opposite. (seems weird, logically - but the Stinkfoot article substantiates this...)

HAZ claiming that the Mu-Tron III+ is True Bypass seems entirely suspect to me.

 

[lowstar]

gimme some pics of the insides and i will determine if it is true bypass or not.
btw i made a neutron (the mutron clone on the ggg website) and it really sounds killer. the original mutron design is NOT true bypass, so i made it true bypass and added a gain makeup stage at the end (that also inverts the sound back w/ volume control). to still fit it in the taiwanese 1590b (a little bigger than the hammond 1590b), i ditched the hp/bp/lp control in favor of the vol control and harwired it to bypass, lp is the only setting i use anyway.

cheers,
lowstar

 

[depalm]

gimme some pics of the insides and i will determine if it is true bypass or not...
cheers,
lowstar

Well, this is not an easy task as Mutron III + has lots of screws to get opened and I'm kinda really busy these days.
But I'll try to find time and post the pics here.

best.

De Palm

 

[markjazzbassist]

gimme some pics of the insides and i will determine if it is true bypass or not.
btw i made a neutron (the mutron clone on the ggg website) and it really sounds killer. the original mutron design is NOT true bypass, so i made it true bypass and added a gain makeup stage at the end (that also inverts the sound back w/ volume control). to still fit it in the taiwanese 1590b (a little bigger than the hammond 1590b), i ditched the hp/bp/lp control in favor of the vol control and harwired it to bypass, lp is the only setting i use anyway.

cheers,
lowstar

PM sent on the neutron.

 

[kesslari]

I've got a HAZ coming off ebay...
but the seller shipped it to the wrong address
I hate waiting. I am not a very patient person...

 

[Higgie]

It's not that the HAZ filter is bad, it's perfectly good in it's own right, but compared to what it claims to be - The real deal is just infinitely better, even with the dodgy power requirements, etc. The only thing bad about the original is it's bypass. But that can be solved with a TB loop or a mod, so it's not exactly a deal breaker.

 

[depalm]

It's not that the HAZ filter is bad, it's perfectly good in it's own right, but compared to what it claims to be - The real deal is just infinitely better, even with the dodgy power requirements, etc. The only thing bad about the original is it's bypass. But that can be solved with a TB loop or a mod, so it's not exactly a deal breaker.

I think the first generation of HAZ Mutron is really bad compared with the more recent with the DIP-switch.

I'd like to AB the original and the HAZ.

Anyone??