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Double Bass why should i change tailpiece?

#21
arseniotall said:
thanks. Good to know. Does the wittner give off too much resonance? I've heard that some bases get hard to amplify with the composites. What's the default material? Ebony? Just trying to get something in the middle for now.
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What do you mean by 'default material'?
 
#24
arseniotall said:
I know you aren't making the huge jump that I just made, but there is something to the tailpiece. I had one of those Huge Kolstein Adjustable tailpieces on my new bass. I struggled to find th right strings as everything sounded dark with no sustain, ut the arco ROARED. Almost double the volume of pizz. Since I mosty do pizz, I swapped it out in a fit of curiousity with an old Kay tailpiece. Bass opened right up. Overtones galore and more bottom. Very loose. Its way too bright right now. I knew something was wrong when spiros were dark with no sustain. Now Im stuck on what material tailpiece to put on permanently.
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Jake deVilliers said:
I've installed lots of these with no issues whatsoever and of course Arnold and Will put them on their New Standard basses. Its a pretty good alternative for a lower weight tailpiece if you can't afford a handmade wooden one! ;)
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Now I'm curious about something. My first NS LaScala ply had the composite tailpiece, and had a ton of resonances that frustrated me from time to time. When I sold it and ordered the new one, I asked for a regular tailpiece like the one on the hybrid. Now that the bass is a few years old, it's tightened up and needs to go to Nnick for some TLC. What it needs at the moment sounds exactly like what you describe. I wonder if I should play with the tailpiece in the process, or just let Nnick do his thing with the soundpost and some different strings?

Subscribed!
 
#25
Chris Fitzgerald said:
Now I'm curious about something. My first NS LaScala ply had the composite tailpiece, and had a ton of resonances that frustrated me from time to time. When I sold it and ordered the new one, I asked for a regular tailpiece like the one on the hybrid. Now that the bass is a few years old, it's tightened up and needs to go to Nnick for some TLC. What it needs at the moment sounds exactly like what you describe. I wonder if I should play with the tailpiece in the process, or just let Nnick do his thing with the soundpost and some different strings?

Subscribed!
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Okay. Maybe you should try swapping tailpieces before Nnick does his thing, or talk to him about it. The point of 'mode-matching' is to get the tailpiece assembly resonance in sync with the neck resonance: changing tailpieces willy-nilly can give you an improvement or not, depending on what note your neck resonates at and what resultant note you get from the tailpiece assembly. We can make some generalisations as regards heavy vs. light but we're wanting the details to be right too.

The phase-cancelling possibilities of all the notes produced by the different parts of the instrument are enormous. Mis-matched frequencies will suck the partials out of the overtone series and create a peaky response. When you get all the pieces working together the results are equally fat, full notes everywhere on the fingerboard.

I just installed one of my hand-carved tailpieces on a Kolstein Fendt and with the after-lengths tuned but without mode-matching, its almost exactly a fourth higher than the fingerboard. This is a better relationship than had previously existed and the bass sounds much more together all over the board.
 
#27
I recently changed my tailpiece from a solid ebony one to one made of lighter wood , not sure what wood though , but substantially lighter . I did this specifically to try and get more sustain from the instrument . It actually really worked on this particular bass and not only to my ears but other players were also quite surprised with the improvement.
 
#30
Jake deVilliers said:
Right. These days they are mostly big, heavy ebony dampers but in the olden days, tailpieces were of lighter woods dyed black - mostly pear and plain maple.

If anyone needs a tone-sucking 350 gram ebony tailpiece, I have a box full of them! ;)
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This is a gross oversimplification. Many, many players (especially arco) have responded favorably to a heavier tailpiece on their bass. Not only is the weight of a tailpiece a factor in tone, response, and wolf damping, so is the length, as well as the two modes of vibration it produces. And let's not leave out the flexibility and material of the hanger wire, or the way the tailpiece is strung (straight pull or under/over). To call an ebony tailpiece "tone-sucking" implies that a heavy tailpiece is never worthwhile; nothing could be further from the truth. In June, at the Oberlin bass workshops, one of our experiments is going to be extensive testing of different tailpieces on a single bass that has tonal challenges. We hope to be able to draw some usable conclusions from it.
 
#31
Edvin said:
can anyone recommend a good site too buy or at least see some alternatives for tailpieces of different woods?
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I'm getting ready to make some custom tailpieces. I'd like to hear from players what they are looking for as far as weight and looks. I like some of the adjustability for after lengths but the tailpieces I've seen look bulky and I'm guessing they are on the heavy side.

I also make custom ping pong paddles for several champion players on the state and international level. They absolutely love the" feel" of my paddles, fantastic for defensive play. However, now they want POWER! As soon as I add things for that I have to take away some of that soft feel. It's kind of like people who want a huge SUV or a 600 hp racing car that also gets 40mpg. Or an adjustable tailpiece that is also lightweight.

Its these challenges that make it fun!
 
#32
360guy said:
I'm getting ready to make some custom tailpieces. I'd like to hear from players what they are looking for as far as weight and looks. I like some of the adjustability for after lengths but the tailpieces I've seen look bulky and I'm guessing they are on the heavy side.

I also make custom ping pong paddles for several champion players on the state and international level. They absolutely love the" feel" of my paddles, fantastic for defensive play. However, now they want POWER! As soon as I add things for that I have to take away some of that soft feel. It's kind of like people who want a huge SUV or a 600 hp racing car that also gets 40mpg. Or an adjustable tailpiece that is also lightweight.

Its these challenges that make it fun!
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haha, that's sound's interesting, really!
I do not have the knowledge of tailpiece qualities and wood's but i'll get back to you! As far as i've read right now, Palisander feels quite interesting.
 
#33
Jake deVilliers said:
Right. These days they are mostly big, heavy ebony dampers but in the olden days, tailpieces were of lighter woods dyed black - mostly pear and plain maple.

Jake,
Until I started reading TB I never gave the tailpieces of my basses a second thought. So, my question is:
Have there ever been experiments using no tailpiece, maybe an ebony half disk-- just to hold the tails of the strings parallel to the bridge and anchor them to the end peg?? A Badass Double Bass I, perhaps? :hmm:

Of course, strings would have to be made longer.
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#34
arnoldschnitzer said:
Many, many players (especially arco) have responded favorably to a heavier tailpiece on their bass.
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Good to read this.. Another push to experiment with an ebony tailpiece on my hybrid Lang (currently sports a painted-black maple or other lighter wood tailpiece.. it's kind of a brightish bass arco-wise and I'd like to make it a good deal darker since I use it almost exclusively for orchestral/arco playing).
 

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