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Why so many watts?
- Thread starter root fifth
- Start date
Personally: Partly because lower frequencies need more watts, partly because equipment run at 10% of capacity lasts longer than equipment run at 110%, and partly because power is cheap so why the hell not?
Ken and Paul are absolutely right about the relevant factors regarding volume in general and, of course, watts is one of the greatest determinants of volume. PAs suitable for electric bass reproduction are NOT common at most venues everywhere in the country, despite what some posters say or imply. They're not the norm here in the Rocky Mountain West.
Among some players, there is undoubtedly a BSD (big, swinging d***) imperative. Don't be fooled, however, by the flippant commenters who dismiss the quest for volume/watts by gratuitously throwing out their personal preference as if it were a fact or even an informed opinion.
Think about it. The differences in equipment needs resulting from differences in repertoire, music types, desired tone, bandmates' volume, playing styles, PA support (or lack thereof), the human range of audibility, psychoacoustics and similar factors constitutes much, if not most, of the discussion here on TalkBass.
The amp has a Volume knob on it. You can always turn it down. I've never played an amp that didn't go down to Zero.
I gig with 200 watts, I guess I'm doing it wrong 
If it's loud enough to cut through at practice it's loud enough to gig with in my opinion. If you're at the point in your playing where you're concerned with your amp being adequate, you're probably newer and you won't be playing that big of venues anyway. Most any venue now days will have PA support.
If it's loud enough to cut through at practice it's loud enough to gig with in my opinion. If you're at the point in your playing where you're concerned with your amp being adequate, you're probably newer and you won't be playing that big of venues anyway. Most any venue now days will have PA support.
Yeah, it's a good idea to try to get an amp with a DI out in case the venue doesn't have an outboard DI for you. In a larger setting, a 200W amp should be plenty adequate for a stage monitor. In a smaller venue, it should be plenty adequate for the gig. I've seen plenty of bassists in rather LARGE churches playing the services with a 200 (or even 100!) watt amp. It can be done.I gig with 200 watts, I guess I'm doing it wrong
Not only that, but the guitars and bass also have to keep up with modern drummers. Sorry to say, but the rock drummer of today absolutely drowns out the rock drummer of the 60's or even 70's. The technology and materials has advanced for them too and can get ear-bleedingly loud even without PA supprt (save for a bass drum, but even so I've played with dudes that can kick hard). So 100w, while some can still use in certain situations, is no longer enough for many. IME 300w is still very useful though.
But in case you didn't know, being in a band is all about a BSD competition...always has been, always will be.
But in case you didn't know, being in a band is all about a BSD competition...always has been, always will be.
So the sad reality is that the bassist needs to spend MORE money because the drummer doesn't have any finess. It may be true...but I don't like it!
BurningSkies
CRAZY BALDHEAD
- Feb 20, 2005
- 27,956
- 20,350
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- Endorsing artist: Dingwall Guitars
I agree whole heartedly. I'm currently using 500w (into 2 8ohm cabs) and really want to be in the 1.5K plus range. I want clean headroom. I want to push my amp rather than my fingers or my bass. I DO push more lows than your typical rock drummer, and once you're boosting in the low low area, 500w of headroom isn't that much, especially if you're running in the zone below a typical 4 string. I can hear my amp give up on notes below G.
I don't want to be loud, I want to be clear and clean sounding. I want to play with a light touch. I want to not hear any power amp compression.
Ok, I lied. Sometimes I want to be loud. Like those gigs where we've been promised a full PA and I show up to find 12's or 15's on stands and no sub. In a college or high school gym. Or outdoors.
+1 on all counts. I don't expect singers to have a huge system that'll take the whole band in front of 500 people but I do expect them to be able to amplify their instrument (their voice) to a level that will compete with a drumset, bass rig, guitar amp etc. That also happens to be enough to carry a bar or small club. This could be a powered mixer, a couple of speakers, a mic and the ability to transport it, hook it all up and run it. I don't think that's too much to ask, after all, I don't take my electric bass someplace and expect someone else to provide everything else needed to use it. When I tell people I can provide backing vocals, I show up with a mic, stand, monitor and cables needed to run it all.
I gig with 200 watts, I guess I'm doing it wrong
As a rock/metal newbie player in my early days, I allowed myself to own only crappy combos or amps that didn't quite have adequate headroom, even in a rehearsal setting (with loud drummers). This inevitably lead to poor technique - digging in, playing hard in an effort to hear myself over the din. A soft touch, playing with subtle dynamics and tone shaping were not in my playbook as underpowered amps become overly compressed, one-tone ponies when pushed. If I had to do it again, I'd invest in the right tool for the job to begin with, rather then having to unlearn bad technique.
At the risk of repeating other's comments, I find 300-500 watts to be fine for most cases. As you indicate, you need enough power to hear yourself comfortably on stage and that's usually it....in a small venue, if you can hear yourself, so can everyone else. In a larger venue, the PA takes over.
A couple of thoughts: Remember, watts is logarithmic, so in order to get a bit more level you need major more watts. 500 watts isn't much louder than 200 watts. If 50 watts seems enough normally, then 500 would provide enough headroom to absorb something really dynamic without breaking up, which is poopy w/ a solid state amp.
Secondly, volume knobs aren't any indicator of power level: Depending on pickups/effects etc. an amp can be at full power output even when the volume knob is at "2" ....Just because your volume is at "9oclock" doesn't mean you are necessarily at 1/4th power....
A couple of thoughts: Remember, watts is logarithmic, so in order to get a bit more level you need major more watts. 500 watts isn't much louder than 200 watts. If 50 watts seems enough normally, then 500 would provide enough headroom to absorb something really dynamic without breaking up, which is poopy w/ a solid state amp.
Secondly, volume knobs aren't any indicator of power level: Depending on pickups/effects etc. an amp can be at full power output even when the volume knob is at "2" ....Just because your volume is at "9oclock" doesn't mean you are necessarily at 1/4th power....
Sometimes, though, that can be a GOOD thing....for years I wouldn't gig without bloodying my fingers playing hard with my cr@ppy setup, but the SOUND was awesome! Pounding the strings sounds different than babying them with a light touch through a powerful amplification system.
I never bloody my fingers playing anymore with my modern amp, and having the dynamics available playing softly with high gain is great, but sometimes I miss the growl of wanking the he!! out of my Bartolinis .......
I think most people like headroom and the ability to push more if they really need to. My cabs can take about 800 watts of punishment each. But my amp only deals out 700 between them at full. If I only had 100 watts, I doubt I'd actually push my cabs anywhere close to where i need them.
+1!
+1
...but, in my experience, it's the guitarist and the drummer that make everyone else need to play louder.
~esa
Alot of really good feed back thanks to everyone.I am starting to understand the point on headroom and it was pointed out that running At 10 % instead of 110% wont beat up your rig never thought of it that way.Guess i just tired of seeing the bar bands turning all the way up!And out of the 5 stores i have been to lookng at rigs its the same old song 300w or why bother.Nice to see people say it can be done with less but i might need more for the tone i want.So can any one provide a link for me to help in my search for a setup?Or if you want i can post my specs and we could do it here!
To the OP:
Part of the answer is simple physics. Energy is inversely proportional to wavelength. So, that means that longer wavelengths (bass) require more energy to remain constant in perception with shorter wavelengths (guitar). You will also notice this if you sing vocals, where higher voices project more easily and require less wind than bass parts. You have to have serious pipes to project a good bass vocal part!
As to overall amplification, of course, that is somewhat subjective to the type of music. There are venues that run sound levels above what is needed and in the range where hearing damage can occur. That is not a good thing. Proper volume occurs where the dynamics are happening, but no one is losing their hearing.
Having enough headroom to get the job done and then more than that by some reasonable margin is simple engineering to make sure the performance is reliable.
Anyhow, you always have your volume knob, but these are some of the reasons the common heads these days have power in the range of 500W to 1000W.
My 2c.
Part of the answer is simple physics. Energy is inversely proportional to wavelength. So, that means that longer wavelengths (bass) require more energy to remain constant in perception with shorter wavelengths (guitar). You will also notice this if you sing vocals, where higher voices project more easily and require less wind than bass parts. You have to have serious pipes to project a good bass vocal part!
As to overall amplification, of course, that is somewhat subjective to the type of music. There are venues that run sound levels above what is needed and in the range where hearing damage can occur. That is not a good thing. Proper volume occurs where the dynamics are happening, but no one is losing their hearing.
Having enough headroom to get the job done and then more than that by some reasonable margin is simple engineering to make sure the performance is reliable.
Anyhow, you always have your volume knob, but these are some of the reasons the common heads these days have power in the range of 500W to 1000W.
My 2c.
I believe if you peruse this column, you will find a variety of useful posts to help your decision making. Your choice is quite variable and strongly affected by cost and volume requirements. A really middle of the road rig would probably be a decent 4x10 and one of the many micros that can be had for reasonable cost. But, you might even have different needs. Anyhow, try some more reading here. I think you will find what you need. GL.
