Why the hate on JHS?

[bassmusic17]

I am closer to libertarian than anything and also Agnostic. Which basically means I don't know who to trust or what to believe haha. I don't wanna just jump into somebody's camp and say I support or don't support what they do. I piss liberals off and I piss conservatives off. Debates are never good.

But one thing that is clearer than political or religious debates is that JHS is a crappy company that doesn't deserve a nickel of that money that could of been put into reputable builders they stole their designs from, and claimed as their own. It's not like they cloned a pedal and made some "tweaks". They more or less took their circuits and slapped it in their stupid boxes and said yup this is twice as much now and it's now our own design because we painted a cute little thing on the front.

 

[groovatron]

One more thing. I see folks whining about how they rip off customers and their pedals are too expensive.

I got news for you folks. It's a free-market economy. You vote with your dollars. No one forces you to spend money on a JHS pedal. You cannot blame a retailer for capitalizing on a product that is in demand, just because you may not be able to afford it. If anything, it should motivate you to come up with a less expensive pedal and start your own value-based company to compete with JHS.

That's America baby

 

[Worldeeeter]

I am what most Americans would call a left wing commie godless atheist and I have no problems with any company or person advertising or not advertising their religion. And, in a lot countries in the world (including but not limited to Canada), nobody cares what you worship or don't worship.

That's a good place to be!
Here's how I see it: If a business advertised "We are a Satanist business" on their signs, vehicles, etc., absolutely no one would patronize them, and they probably wouldn't last long. Christians would be the first to denounce them and picket their locations, etc. So, when a business says "We're a gawd-based business", why is that any different? Why is it necessary, for that matter? It has NOTHING to do with the business itself, unless they're making bibles or other religious propaganda.
I'm not shouting anything from mountaintops, but I steer clear of Jebus-freaks.

 

[nshuman]

Just curious---do you think the text of the e-mail is a fake? Or do you think there was a second e-mail on the grassy knoll*?










*Do Canadians get this reference?

Yes, we do get that reference. Honestly, the email is stupid. Devi Ever and others came out saying that their dealers told them JHS had put pressure on them. Who knows how it happened, email, phone, in person conversation?

At the end of the day, JHS used to put on their site that they made tons of mods to the orange squeezer compressor. Then, somebody traced it and it was original clone.

JHS's language on their site has changed a LOT, people should consider that. What happened? And, they still pretend they improved the circuits when they are exactly like what some runoffgrove or other clones are built like.

Anyway, people should buy what they want, who cares. People want to buy from JHS, go ahead. People can rationalize/justify it however they want. What ever makes people sleep at night.

 

[bassmusic17]

One more thing. I see folks whining about how they rip off customers and their pedals are too expensive.

I got news for you folks. It's a free-market economy. You vote with your dollars. No one forces you to spend money on a JHS pedal. You cannot blame a retailer for capitalizing on a product that is in demand, just because you may not be able to afford it. If anything, it should motivate you to come up with a less expensive pedal and start your own value-based company to compete with JHS.

That's America baby

I think you missed the point. Also that shouldn't be America. Unfortunately a lot of times it is. If you don't see that as a problem than you are part of the problem.

 

[jwr]

That's a good place to be!
Here's how I see it: If a business advertised "We are a Satanist business" on their signs, vehicles, etc., absolutely no one would patronize them, and they probably wouldn't last long. Christians would be the first to denounce them and picket their locations, etc. So, when a business says "We're a gawd-based business", why is that any different? Why is it necessary, for that matter? It has NOTHING to do with the business itself, unless they're making bibles or other religious propaganda.
I'm not shouting anything from mountaintops, but I steer clear of Jebus-freaks.

I disagree. I see pedal builders that are obviously non Christian or Atheist, hell maybe some are Satanist, who knows. They still sell effects well. Take Lone Wolf Fx for example. Joe is a very open Atheist and even bashes on religion in general, but people love his stuff because it sounds great. Or Abdominal who uses what some would see as offensive graphics, people still buy their stuff. In fact, I've met more non religious builders than religious ones.

I will say the go God go stuff is annoying and I agree in that respect, but I don't think there is anything wrong with a company having their moral standings out there. It's not like they are trying to sway you, they are just proud of who they are.

 

[groovatron]

I think you missed the point. Also that shouldn't be America. Unfortunately a lot of times it is. If you don't see that as a problem than you are part of the problem.

That's strange considering you claimed to be a "closer to libertarian than anything" in the above post. Maybe you should re-examine your self proclaimed labels and learn what they mean.

 

[bassmusic17]

That's strange considering you claimed to be a "closer to libertarian than anything" in the above post. Maybe you should re-examine your self proclaimed labels and learn what they mean.

Yeah I said closer. Didn't say exactly. Also said I didn't put myself in any one camp. Also the point was missed again. You seem to be good at that.

 

[Worldeeeter]

I disagree. I see pedal builders that are obviously non Christian or Atheist, hell maybe some are Satanist, who knows. They still sell effects well. Take Lone Wolf Fx for example. Joe is a very open Atheist and even bashes on religion in general, but people love his stuff because it sounds great. Or Abdominal who uses what some would see as offensive graphics, people still buy their stuff. In fact, I've met more non religious builders than religious ones.

I will say the go God go stuff is annoying and I agree in that respect, but I don't think there is anything wrong with a company having their moral standings out there. It's not like they are trying to sway you, they are just proud of who they are.

I agree with you, in that the sound is what sells gear. The boycott thing is just my little crusade (pun intended).

 

[nshuman]

That's strange considering you claimed to be a "closer to libertarian than anything" in the above post. Maybe you should re-examine your self proclaimed labels and learn what they mean.

Maybe, just maybe, his political opinions are well balanced and not just a stereotypical one dimensional label that someone came up as a marketing slogan

 

[ole Jason]

Christian worship music is one of the fastest growing segments of the music industry and has become HUGE in the last few years in regards to gear. JHS is very very popular among the praise & worship crowd. The "support one of our own" mentality is a big part of praise & worship gear (as with many other groups) and his religious claims are a big part of his business model.

Funnily enough, another darling of the genre is T1M.

 

[nshuman]

I disagree. I see pedal builders that are obviously non Christian or Atheist, hell maybe some are Satanist, who knows. They still sell effects well. Take Lone Wolf Fx for example. Joe is a very open Atheist and even bashes on religion in general, but people love his stuff because it sounds great. Or Abdominal who uses what some would see as offensive graphics, people still buy their stuff. In fact, I've met more non religious builders than religious ones.

I will say the go God go stuff is annoying and I agree in that respect, but I don't think there is anything wrong with a company having their moral standings out there. It's not like they are trying to sway you, they are just proud of who they are.

@gregmon79 has a pedal with the flag or Iran. That is where I draw the line, I don't want to be on a no-fly list

 

[nshuman]

Christian worship music is one of the fastest growing segments of the music industry and has become HUGE in the last few years in regards to gear. JHS is very very popular among the praise & worship crowd. The "support one of our own" mentality is a big part of praise & worship gear (as with many other groups) and his religious claims are a big part of his business model.

Funnily enough, another darling of the genre is T1M.

Ahhhh, T1M, I need a drink now

 

[jwr]

I'm listening to Old Man Gloom right now. Are they religious?

 

[KevInDaBassment]

Here's how I see it: If a business advertised "We are a Satanist business" on their signs, vehicles, etc., absolutely no one would patronize them, and they probably wouldn't last long....

Everybody has things they find offensive and some people find practically everything offensive. If somebody made a guitar case covered with bear fur outside, I'm sure several people would find it barbaric and think that it's just plain awful to do so. Other guys might "meh" and some might find it kind of cool if they are hunters/outdoorsmen. I think you get this, but the adult thing to do is just ignore it if you don't like it.

Personally I find anyone citing their business or anything else as a certain religious or political affiliation to be a grossly distasteful thing to do. I don't give two craps if you are a business run by holdover hippies, if I like your pedals I'll buy them, but I won't out of obligation to feel like I'm an Earth-lover. That having been said, they have every right in the world to, and perhaps they are using their business as a ministry tool. I feel there are better ways to do this, but it's not my place to judge their intentions without knowing the full story. To be honest, not everyone who goes around proclaiming they are associated with a religion, political party, or special interest group is actually doing it out of principle. How many companies add "Never tested on animals" to their products solely to avoid bad PR and not because they "believe" in that cause? Don't sweat it.

 

[Adamixoye]

Yes, we do get that reference. Honestly, the email is stupid. Devi Ever and others came out saying that their dealers told them JHS had put pressure on them. Who knows how it happened, email, phone, in person conversation?

At the end of the day, JHS used to put on their site that they made tons of mods to the orange squeezer compressor. Then, somebody traced it and it was original clone.

JHS's language on their site has changed a LOT, people should consider that. What happened? And, they still pretend they improved the circuits when they are exactly like what some runoffgrove or other clones are built like.

Anyway, people should buy what they want, who cares. People want to buy from JHS, go ahead. People can rationalize/justify it however they want. What ever makes people sleep at night.

Fair enough. I will say this though:

I don't know the whole story. That post reads as completely plausible to me. I've said this before, even about a clear cheat like what's-his-bucket from this1smyne: not all "dishonesty" is conscious dishonesty. I take the good intentions of the post at face value. I think he was trying to do honest research, and if he's wrong, it's not that he's trying to deceive people, but that his unconscious biases are coming into play. Maybe I'm naive for thinking that.

Also, re: the e-mail, obviously no one knows what else might have happened off the record. Or what other unearthed e-mails are out there. But, if that's the only "evidence" anyone has dug up, then that doesn't support the claims of Devi Ever, et al. And personally, with the whole Devi Ever Kickstarter fiasco, why would I take their word on anything? I know they tried to own up to it, but that was still a pretty clear case of cheating the customers out of something. I totally agree with the post on the point of "Why do people hate JHS but Devi Ever gets a pass?"

Third and final point: there's a saying that goes, there are three side to every story: my side, your side, and the truth. I imagine that's what's going on with many of these cases.

 

[groovatron]

Yeah I said closer. Didn't say exactly. Also said I didn't put myself in any one camp. Also the point was missed again. You seem to be good at that.

The #1 principle of libertarianism is a free market economy. If you don't believe in a free market economy, then I'd choose a different label to be "closest" to.

It's akin to saying, "I'm closer to a Christian than anything, but I don't believe in Jesus."

 

[gregmon79]

@gregmon79 has a pedal with the flag or Iran. That is where I draw the line, I don't want to be on a no-fly list

I honestly didnt even know that when I got it haha. The thought obviously crossed my mind, but I just figured it was a cool design. I dig it. Although, I may need to redo that pedal eventually. The sticker on there was damaged during that freak water accident at that show we played a couple months ago.

 

[Anachronism]

One more thing. I see folks whining about how they rip off customers and their pedals are too expensive.

I got news for you folks. It's a free-market economy. You vote with your dollars. No one forces you to spend money on a JHS pedal. You cannot blame a retailer for capitalizing on a product that is in demand, just because you may not be able to afford it. If anything, it should motivate you to come up with a less expensive pedal and start your own value-based company to compete with JHS.

That's America baby

You ignore the market distortions that people are complaining about, and how those complaints are in fact the vehicle of a market correction. If a company overstates the quality of their product, that information distorts the market if accepted. It is precisely through "whining" as you call it that the market can correct itself as potential customers learn that the value of the product is less than advertised. A further market distortion is added when a company copies the intellectual property of another. Allowing this practice to stand will discourage innovation because investment in research and product development will be less attractive when other companies can copy designs and reap the profits of design and research without doing any of it themselves.
That said, I don't want the government regulating every exaggerated advertisement, and perhaps the designs JHS is accused of ripping off weren't properly protected by intellectual property laws. Thus, if bad actors in the market aren't to be corrected by government intervention, they must be addressed through private means, such as warning other potential customers of the company's wrongdoing.

 

[groovatron]

Maybe, just maybe, his political opinions are well balanced and not just a stereotypical one dimensional label that someone came up as a marketing slogan

I didn't use the label, he did. Words mean something. You cannot just make up the meaning's as you go in order to suit your fancy.