Why would you choose a Fender over a Sire?

[DoctorZee]

I've tried more than a few Sire basses out in stores & haven't been impressed with the fit / finish or balance on any of them. But if they work for YOU, that's all that should matter!

Same here. I feel like I'm in a bizzaro universe when I come on here and see people raving that Sire is "far superior" to Fender. Maybe I've just had terrible luck, but every Sire I've seen has had poor fretwork, cheap crackly pots, and a tone that I just can't love.

 

[tvbop]

As with everything in my life its gotta look good, from domestic stuff to my sneakers....and that headstock is a total deal breaker...she aint pretty at all and the curves don't look nice either.

 

[mrperkolator]

Same here. I feel like I'm in a bizzaro universe when I come on here and see people raving that Sire is "far superior" to Fender. Maybe I've just had terrible luck, but every Sire I've seen has had poor fretwork, cheap crackly pots, and a tone that I just can't love.

I'm not sure which ones you tried. The 5 stringers do seem a bit top heavy and that made me nervous buying my 4 string J online. I'm happy with mine. And yes I do like it much better than the Fender currently sitting at my house. My only gripe about my sire is a personal one. I find the pots on the active V3 are too close together. But I have a soldering iron and parts, so it'll be passive soon with pots easier to use.

for many of us, getting rolled fretboards in this price range is the source for much of the raving. I know that feature won me over quite a bit.

 

[96tbird]

What gets me about Fender bashers is lack of logic. In 1961 a new Jazz bass was about $350. Today a USA Precision Ultra is $2100.

Now look below. inflation shows that $100 in '61 is now almost $1000. So following inflation a USA should cost $3500. BUT ITS $2100.

Fender USA pays very good wages, health benefits and probably 401k etc. Does the Asian worker get that? Not likely.

I will not blame folks for buying offshore guitars. They're fantastic these days. Prices are awesome for young folks. But if you can afford a USA (or MIM) Fender, maybe you should assess something larger than your wallet. I call it social responsibility.

 

[micguy]

What gets me about Fender bashers is lack of logic. In 1961 a new Jazz bass was about $350. Today a USA Precision Ultra is $2100.

Now look below. inflation shows that $100 in '61 is now almost $1000. So following inflation a USA should cost $3500. BUT ITS $2100.

I understand your "logic', but it doesn't separate Fender from the pack at all - the same logic applies to literally everyone making musical instruments in any volume today.

Fender doesn't have any secret sauce that makes them better or worse than anyone else. Their stuff is "cheap" because Fender no longer pays workers to route bodies or necks - a CNC machine does that. Asian basses are super values because.....CNC is even cheaper than cheap labor, so many of the critical steps in making parts are done exactly the same way they're done in the USA.

Fender has the name of the guy who started practical mass production of solid bodied instruments to. Leo was indeed a significant guy in the history of things. But...that's the only thing they have above all other brands. I don't think we should bash them for that, but I think, if you're going to apply logic to why people pick Fenders or someone else, you have to understand that that is really all they have that makes them different.

 

[Doug P]

What makes the Sire less $$ ??
Hardware materials ? Pick ups ?
Is the body 1, 2, or ….. pieces under the paint job ?
With the ease of manufacturing
(computer) wood and not knowing the make-up of tuners, bridge, and…… sure all this works but ??
Maybe I'm not seeing something ?? I'm sure the Sire brand has something making it a popular bass brand. I only see $$. I guess the bang for the buck works. The audience will not care. They will not see a "wild" looking bass that might catch their eye…… and as for the couple of bass players there, I don't think they care…. Well there will always be "the one" who will think…….
I'm a Fender player who owns a few with no need for more, at the moment anyway. But like the audience, who cares what I like, right. Have at it !

 

[prom311]

What makes the Sire less $$ ??
Hardware materials ? Pick ups ?

Yup, the stock hardware is ok but isn't the best. Mainly the knobs stink. The tuners are just ok. Same with the bridge. Serviceable but not great.

The secret sauce you get 80-90% of the way there to a Fender for less than half the price. That and the tone.

And the audience will 100% not care what you're playing when it sounds awesome. It'll look like any other FSO to them.

 

[DrummerwStrings]

Why is there some kind of urban legend going around TB that Sire doesn't make passive basses? As obviously false as it is people keep chiming in this thread to repeat it. Are there other urban legends about brands that I don't know about? (Ibanez doesn't make red basses? Gibson hardware is made of recycled batteries? Something like that?)

Many of the early (2015, Sires are relatively new) TB posts about Sire basses mentioned the pre as the standout feature. The passive Sires came out at most 2 years ago, so ppl still associate Sire with Marcus Miller & preamps.

 

[DrummerwStrings]

I haven't played your Sire. I'm glad you love it. Sounds like a great bass. Not sure why you are so defensive

I thought he was describing his Squier, not Sire.

 

[Sharko]

Many of the early (2015, Sires are relatively new) TB posts about Sire basses mentioned the pre as the standout feature. The passive Sires came out at most 2 years ago, so ppl still associate Sire with Marcus Miller & preamps.

That actually answers my question, thank you.

did you know that Rickenbacker knobs are made from recycled dildos?

 

[Herrick]

I would choose a Fender over a Sire if I played 4-strings. I'm not a fan of basses that aren't Fenders but try to look like Fenders. However if the Sire P5 has a significantly better-sounding B-string than a Fender P5 and didn't weigh too much then I'd really consider buying the Sire.

There's a Sire P5 on Sweewater that's listed at 8.15 pounds. If I were interested in buying a bass, I'd definitely check that out. But I've no idea how good or not good the B-string is.

 

[Herrick]

I wouldn't, I would definitely go Sire and/or Squire over Fender, and plenty of them are in the 8-9 lb range that I see listed at different sites.

Sorry for going off topic, but what are some websites that list weight? I can only think of Sweetwater and Bass Palace...I think it's called Bass Palace.

 

[DrummerwStrings]

What gets me about Fender bashers is lack of logic. In 1961 a new Jazz bass was about $350. Today a USA Precision Ultra is $2100.

Now look below. inflation shows that $100 in '61 is now almost $1000. So following inflation a USA should cost $3500. BUT ITS $2100.

Fender USA pays very good wages, health benefits and probably 401k etc. Does the Asian worker get that? Not likely.

I will not blame folks for buying offshore guitars. They're fantastic these days. Prices are awesome for young folks. But if you can afford a USA (or MIM) Fender, maybe you should assess something larger than your wallet. I call it social responsibility. View attachment 4877571View attachment 4877572

Something about your calculations I couldn't follow, so I used Wolfram Alpha to find what a $350 1961 Fender would cost in today's $:

$350 (1961 US dollars) in 2022
Result


$3291.95 (2022 US dollars)
(based on Consumer Price Index)


Average rate of inflation

Total inflation factor

The inflation % used is actually a little less, yet the price is over 3x $1000.

Source: 1961 $350 today - Wolfram|Alpha


The next question is whether an Ultra is equivalent to a $350 1961 Fender, or would another model be closer.


EDIT: Ah, $100 was used as an example to estimate the bass; I read it as the $ of the 1961 bass. I already did the work, tho.

 

[DrummerwStrings]

I understand your "logic', but it doesn't separate Fender from the pack at all - the same logic applies to literally everyone making musical instruments in any volume today.

Fender doesn't have any secret sauce that makes them better or worse than anyone else. Their stuff is "cheap" because Fender no longer pays workers to route bodies or necks - a CNC machine does that. Asian basses are super values because.....CNC is even cheaper than cheap labor, so many of the critical steps in making parts are done exactly the same way they're done in the USA.

Fender has the name of the guy who started practical mass production of solid bodied instruments to. Leo was indeed a significant guy in the history of things. But...that's the only thing they have above all other brands. I don't think we should bash them for that, but I think, if you're going to apply logic to why people pick Fenders or someone else, you have to understand that that is really all they have that makes them different.

Leo, & Legacy.

 

[Smooth_bass88]

26984273[/URL], member: 114472"]I have gone through some instruments over the years so re-sale value is something I consider. Not sure why that is funny.

It also seems strange to say you can't imagine a Sire being as good as your Fender. The only way you would know that is to play one.

My Fender is 60 years old and has 60 years worth of wear and tear. You can feel this when you play it, you can hear it in it's tone. It's the standard from which all other J style basses are measured. A new Sire, while a really great bass for the money, just doesn't exude the feel and vibe of an original Pre-CBS Fender Bass.

Re-sale value on a piece of equipment that doesn't even cost that much to begin with is totally silly. Unless you're in the business of selling used equipment, this should not be a concern because it's meant to used for fun/pleasure- you buy it because you WANT IT- unlike a car or house which is a necessity. Also, some people use their equipment to earn income (I fall into this category), so re-sale on something that "pays for itself" is a non-issue.

 

[FRoss6788]

Fender is still the Genuine Article of any FSO.

All others (FSO's) are copies.

I'll take the original.

My J and P are among the best I've played. I have a Lakland, a couple Pilots a Dyna and an L2000 (and sold MANY others)

Oh, I CAN'T STAND that Marcus has his name on the front of the headstock, which I don't like either.....

 

[DrummerwStrings]

I would choose a Fender over a Sire if I played 4-strings. I'm not a fan of basses that aren't Fenders but try to look like Fenders. However if the Sire P5 has a significantly better-sounding B-string than a Fender P5 and didn't weigh too much then I'd really consider buying the Sire.

There's a Sire P5 on Sweewater that's listed at 8.15 pounds. If I were interested in buying a bass, I'd definitely check that out. But I've no idea how good or not good the B-string is.

Many Sire reviewers (some on the Sire Club thread, can start a search there) have said the B is pretty good, not dethroning the absolute best, but pretty clear & even. I've also seen Fender/Sire comparisons on YouTube.

I haven't played a wide variety of basses so I can't make a deep comparison.

 

[96tbird]

I understand your "logic', but it doesn't separate Fender from the pack at all - the same logic applies to literally everyone making musical instruments in any volume today.

Fender doesn't have any secret sauce that makes them better or worse than anyone else. Their stuff is "cheap" because Fender no longer pays workers to route bodies or necks - a CNC machine does that. Asian basses are super values because.....CNC is even cheaper than cheap labor, so many of the critical steps in making parts are done exactly the same way they're done in the USA.

Fender has the name of the guy who started practical mass production of solid bodied instruments to. Leo was indeed a significant guy in the history of things. But...that's the only thing they have above all other brands. I don't think we should bash them for that, but I think, if you're going to apply logic to why people pick Fenders or someone else, you have to understand that that is really all they have that makes them different.

No secret sauce it's true. However when the people playing six bangers see a Fender bass, there are no questions. That's priceless. LOL.

 

[DrummerwStrings]

My Fender is 60 years old and has 60 years worth of wear and tear. You can feel this when you play it, you can hear it in it's tone. It's the standard from which all other J style basses are measured. A new Sire, while a really great bass for the money, just doesn't exude the feel and vibe of an original Pre-CBS Fender Bass.

Re-sale value on a piece of equipment that doesn't even cost that much to begin with is totally silly. Unless you're in the business of selling used equipment, this should not be a concern because it's meant to used for fun/pleasure- you buy it because you WANT IT- unlike a car or house which is a necessity. Also, some people use their equipment to earn income (I fall into this category), so re-sale on something that "pays for itself" is a non-issue.

Houses a necessity? They are, but that didn't stop a few million ppl/private equity firms from looking for 'passive income' by buying up homes & posting them @vacationer prices on AirBnB. Some cars are definitely bought on spec, too (RIP recent Mercedes-Benz buyers…).

 

[DrummerwStrings]

Fender is still the Genuine Article of any FSO.

All others (FSO's) are copies.

I'll take the original.

My J and P are among the best I've played. I have a Lakland, a couple Pilots a Dyna and an L2000 (and sold MANY others)

Oh, I CAN'T STAND that Marcus has his name on the front of the headstock, which I don't like either.....

Do you consider your Lākland a FSO, but an exception to your Fender rule?