Will a plek help this?

[3bc]

TLR My question, for a neck with no obvious fret issues, other than I just can't dial it as low as other instruments I own/owned, will a plek help with improving my lowest possible action before buzzing out?

...

I have two jazz basses. One is $500 and came from the factory with pretty ugly fretwork, however, action and overall playability are quite good. I noticed frets up high were very buzzy even with a very little if any relief, so I assumed I had a high fret, which I did. 20 minutes with a fret kisser and dressing tools later, and action up and down the fretboard is very low and quite impressive for this bass. E string might be 2.2mm off the 12th fret.

My other jazz bass was significantly more expensive, and it's a beautiful instrument and the fret work is very clean. However, I can't get the action as low as the $500 bass, it buzzes out badly before I get there.

So I put my fret kisser up and down the board looking for a high fret or two, and nothing, nada, zip. Everything seems very level, again neck is set up with almost no relief as before.

My question, for a neck with no obvious fret issues, other than I just can't dial it as low as other instruments I own/owned, will a plek help with improving my lowest possible action before buzzing out?

Thanks!

 

[Bruce Johnson]

A fret rocker is a diagnostic tool for quickly locating fret problems, like a single fret that is raised up. You've determined that the neck doesn't have an obvious problem like that. But if buzzes out at higher action, that means that the frets still aren't accurately leveled and/or set up. Close, but not quite.

You need to have the frets leveled. It probably doesn't need much at all, just a few swipes of a leveling beam. It can be done by hand, the old-fashioned way by a reasonably skilled Luthier. In about 15 minutes. Or you can send it to a shop and have the same thing done by a computer-controlled robotic PLEK machine. Which is very hi-tech and cool. The Tech operating it may even wear a lab coat. But the final result will be the same. The PLEK will level the frets, to the same accuracy.

My point is that you don't need a PLEK machine to do a basic fret leveling touch-up.

 

[60bass]

TLR My question, for a neck with no obvious fret issues, other than I just can't dial it as low as other instruments I own/owned, will a plek help with improving my lowest possible action before buzzing out?

...

I have two jazz basses. One is $500 and came from the factory with pretty ugly fretwork, however, action and overall playability are quite good. I noticed frets up high were very buzzy even with a very little if any relief, so I assumed I had a high fret, which I did. 20 minutes with a fret kisser and dressing tools later, and action up and down the fretboard is very low and quite impressive for this bass. E string might be 2.2mm off the 12th fret.

My other jazz bass was significantly more expensive, and it's a beautiful instrument and the fret work is very clean. However, I can't get the action as low as the $500 bass, it buzzes out badly before I get there.

So I put my fret kisser up and down the board looking for a high fret or two, and nothing, nada, zip. Everything seems very level, again neck is set up with almost no relief as before.

My question, for a neck with no obvious fret issues, other than I just can't dial it as low as other instruments I own/owned, will a plek help with improving my lowest possible action before buzzing out?

Thanks!

Probably, yes it will help. But remember a Plek like any other type of neck/fret work will only be as good as the experience of whoever's performing it. From what I've read and understand about the plek machine there is a slight learning curve and the more the operator works with it the better he/she gets. For factory production I would say it's probably the best thing going as the manufacturer can assure that every single instrument they turn out will be correct at the exact specs that they want it to be. The machine is programmed with everything it needs to know about the products they make. So, it's just a matter of putting it in there hitting a button and letting the machine do its thing.

I would say that if you have a local shop that has a plek is to take the bass in there show them and explain to the operator exactly what the issue is and make sure that they can correct it. One advantage to the plek machine is that it does all of its adjustments with the instrument strung up and tuned up that way it turns out the best possible situation with the bass in tune and under tension.

One thing I will add is that if you are using a fret rocker to check your frets make sure the neck is dead straight before you put the fret rocker on there to check them. Also a fret rocker is a good tool but when you hit an area where it rocks it can't tell you if it's because there's a fret that's high or if it's a fret that is low. It only shows that something is not right in a particular area. Also, it only takes a very little difference in fret height to cause buzzing. The difference will sometimes not be able to be seen with the naked eye. The Plek isn't affected by that as it maps the neck and visually displays any problems for the operator to see.

 

[Pep]

My feelings are mixed.p because I’ve had great results with both.

I just bought a Tobias Growler V from Sweetwater and had it Plek’d. I plays great and the action I’d fairly low.
I also ordered a custom built Vintage (brand) VJ74 (J-Bass) by their UK Pro Shop and the action on it is the lowest I’ve ever seen. It was done by hand.

You will probably spend less having a luthier fret level and dress the bass, but the Plek may be quicker.

 

[3bc]

The lowest action of any bass I’ve ever owned was a lakland skyline, which come from the factory plekked. A close 2nd, was the exact same model bass, but hand built and setup in Chicago. Third is the Sire V7. The materials out there about the sire are somewhat nebulous. They want you to believe that they are plekked, but they don’t actually come right out and say it, and I don’t believe it’s actually true.

This current bass I’m talking about is another American made instrument, more expensive than all fenders save the customer shops. And it can’t hang with even the sire. Not that it’s bad, just not as good, as far as action is concerned.

 

[logdrum]

My wife's guitar SC-3 that she got from G&L factory directly in the early 90's turns out to have a subtle neck twist and the TR is not doing anything. Rather than removing the fretboard and repairing it that way and possibly damaging the FB- what he did was raise some frets and lowering some . Something a plek won't be able to fix. I did not even know it had issues because I tend to not do low action. But this guitar was a bear to intonate. Now it plays fantastic and the action can be lowered like a guitar with a straight neck. And also floating trem up and down. He recommend I get locking tuners. Good manual luthier will beat a machine anytime. I brought it to him for some pickup work and add some setup which turned out to be a bit more but not too much. The neck is stable as it has been in NM for over 25 years and we never had to adjust it. The only thing I need to keep constant is the same gauge and brand 11's. I don't mind and possibly just keep in this area for the rest of its life

 

[brstma]

I had a bass plekked once and it made a huge improvement. It had a “ramp” and they pulled and replaced all the frets from 12 up and did some board releveling as part of the process. That added $100 on top of the plek job

so if any frets are too low they should advise they need to replace them to do the plek job

 

[Ritter667]

The lowest action of any bass I’ve ever owned was a lakland skyline, which come from the factory plekked. A close 2nd, was the exact same model bass, but hand built and setup in Chicago. Third is the Sire V7. The materials out there about the sire are somewhat nebulous. They want you to believe that they are plekked, but they don’t actually come right out and say it, and I don’t believe it’s actually true.

This current bass I’m talking about is another American made instrument, more expensive than all fenders save the customer shops. And it can’t hang with even the sire. Not that it’s bad, just not as good, as far as action is concerned.

My dirt cheap 5 string Ibanez Mikro Bass, produced for Ibanez by the Cort factory in Indonesia, had perfectly leveled frets from stock.

My current action is spot on 2mm lowest string 12th fret, but if I wanted I could go even lower without any fret buzz whatsoever.

 

[-Stingray]

A Plek could help. But first make sure it's not something else first (like a nut slot that has been filed too low). If you're not sure, consider bringing it to a good luthier for a setup and get their opinion on whether or not it needs a Plek. You might save yourself a few hundred bucks in the process.

 

[3bc]

My wife's guitar SC-3 that she got from G&L factory directly in the early 90's turns out to have a subtle neck twist and the TR is not doing anything. Rather than removing the fretboard and repairing it that way and possibly damaging the FB- what he did was raise some frets and lowering some . Something a plek won't be able to fix. I did not even know it had issues because I tend to not do low action. But this guitar was a bear to intonate. Now it plays fantastic and the action can be lowered like a guitar with a straight neck. And also floating trem up and down. He recommend I get locking tuners. Good manual luthier will beat a machine anytime. I brought it to him for some pickup work and add some setup which turned out to be a bit more but not too much. The neck is stable as it has been in NM for over 25 years and we never had to adjust it. The only thing I need to keep constant is the same gauge and brand 11's. I don't mind and possibly just keep in this area for the rest of its life

Well I think the combination of an experienced tech/luthier and plek is probably best. A 30 year pro will never match the level of precision a CNC machine can achieve. It’s physically not possible.

But an experienced pro with 30 years of contextual knowledge and experience will make a plek that much better and will help diagnose other things that might be going on.

I believe strongly that I don’t have any of those kinds of issues. Been playing for 30 years and spend lots of time setting up and tinkering with instruments. I used to help some friends in decent sized touring bands set up their instruments and such. A well made instrument without underlying issues I can get down to 2mm on the e string with no problem.

My suspicion is that the frets on this are not level is microscopic ways I can’t feel or level with hand tools.

 

[Bevan777]

Have you tried adjusting the angle of the neck with a shim? Sometimes this can make a big difference.

 

[rorsini]

I've had good luck with Pleks. I feel it's an excellent value for what you get, versus hoping that a fret level is done by the expert in the shop and not the assistant that is learning the ropes on my bass. A plek seems to equalize the playing field, since it doesn't care if I'm famous, or if no one has ever heard of me (I'm here).. you get the same excellent results either way. My point is that big name players probally don't have to work as hard to get quality work done on their gear. Robots to the rescue!

But first, I would run through the normal setup steps first to determine if fret leveling is even the answer.

 

[Bruce Johnson]

A 30 year pro will never match the level of precision a CNC machine can achieve. It’s physically not possible.

That's not true. I don't have the time to write a long essay here, but a human with a long flat grinding bar can level frets to an accuracy equal to or greater than a PLEK machine.

 

[3bc]

That's not true. I don't have the time to write a long essay here, but a human with a long flat grinding bar can level frets to an accuracy equal to or greater than a PLEK machine.

With respect… This is completely preposterous. A properly configured, fairly unremarkable CNC machine can repeatedly, 1,000 times per day, measure and make cuts with a tolerance of .0005mm over and over and over.

Even if a human hand was capable of applying consistent, precisely even pressure on a level that could compete with a CNC machine, which it cannot come close to, we’re talking about a tolerance that is hundreds of times smaller than the human eye is even capable of resolving.

Now if your argument is that a well trained human could get “close enough” to be functionally equivalent, I would probably still disagree, but it would at least be a matter of opinion and not something so objectively and obviously ridiculous.

 

[Pep]

That's not true. I don't have the time to write a long essay here, but a human with a long flat grinding bar can level frets to an accuracy equal to or greater than a PLEK machine.

With all due respect, I disagree with this statement completely. A PLEK machine is not only more accurate and more consistent, it’s also quicker, and time is money.

 

[Bruce Johnson]

With respect… This is completely preposterous. A properly configured, fairly unremarkable CNC machine can repeatedly, 1,000 times per day, measure and make cuts with a tolerance of .0005mm over and over and over.

Even if a human hand was capable of applying consistent, precisely even pressure on a level that could compete with a CNC machine, which it cannot come close to, we’re talking about a tolerance that is hundreds of times smaller than the human eye is even capable of resolving.

Now if your argument is that a well trained human could get “close enough” to be functionally equivalent, I would probably still disagree, but it would at least be a matter of opinion and not something so objectively and obviously ridiculous.

You can disagree. But I'm an actual expert on both sides of the discussion. I've been a mechanical engineer, machinist and electronics technician for over 50 years. I've personally designed and built hundreds of complex machines, robots and CNC machines over my career. I understand completely how a PLEK machine works. Now, in my semi-retirement, I have a nice small machine shop of my own. I restore antique machine tools as a hobby.

I'm also a veteran pro Luthier. I've been building and restoring electric basses for over 30 years. I couldn't tell you how many times I've leveled frets on bass necks. The old-fashioned way with a stone bar. I've even developed and built special tools for leveling frets.

If your bass neck was here in front of me in my shop, I could touch up the leveling and solve your problem in about 15 minutes. I've done it hundreds of times. Doing the same job in a PLEK machine would take a lot longer and the result wouldn't be any more accurate.

 

[3bc]

If your bass neck was here in front of me in my shop, I could touch up the leveling and solve your problem in about 15 minutes. I've done it hundreds of times. Doing the same job in a PLEK machine would take a lot longer and the result wouldn't be any more accurate.

On a lot we will have to agree to disagree. But of this, I have no doubt.

Cheers!

 

[Major Seven]

That's not true. I don't have the time to write a long essay here, but a human with a long flat grinding bar can level frets to an accuracy equal to or greater than a PLEK machine.

Just curious. To what tolerance is a plek good for? I have only been setting up basses for 1 or 2 years now.
However after 30 years building and setting up engines, I am good for discerning 0.001 or 0.002' by feel.
Of course, the plek is tasked with maintaining its tolerances over the length of the neck.

 

[3bc]

1/1,000th of a mm. Which again, is 100x+ of what the human eye can even see, let alone work and measure…

 

[Bruce Johnson]

1/1,000th of a mm. Which again, is 100x+ of what the human eye can even see, let alone work and measure…

That is the resolution of the digital scales. A theoretical number, if everything is tight and rigid and perfect. Metal blocks in a temperature-controlled environment. That is not the accuracy to which it will grind the surface of the frets on a maple bass neck. There's a list of things which reduce the final accuracy of the ground surface. It includes the tightness and wear on the machine and its sensors, wear on the grinding wheel, etc. But the biggest thing is the movement of the bass neck in the holding fixture, and flexing of the wood itself. These all have an effect as the machine is applying grinding pressure while moving around on the neck. And then there's the whole sensor/computer/math side too. The accuracy of the initial loaded/unloaded measurements, the math model map, and how well the neck repeats between the loaded and unloaded conditions.

Machinists have been making surfaces flat to better than +/- 0.0001" since the 1890's, using techniques with straightedges, layout dye, scrapers and flat stones. Long before digital scales and CNC. The leveling process we Luthiers use with stone bars and Sharpies is a similar technique. Using good practice, we can get the frets level in the range of +/- 0.0005", half a thousandth. I've done it and measured it.

I don't have any personal experience running a PLEK machine, but I believe that the accuracy of a neck leveled by a PLEK machine will measure to about that same range. +/- 0.0005". Assuming that the operator set up and ran the machine correctly. Which is great and does the job well.

But it's not vastly more accurate than what a human can do.