Will This Work?

[MrBassman17]

Recently found out that the truss rod in my MIM Fender P-Bass has run out of adjustment room. I had a seasonal set up done, and the intonation corrected, and the tech did a good job; action fine, plays in tune all the way up the neck. But, I was advised that there is no more adjustment left in the neck. So, I was told to loosen the strings while not playing it, and bring it back in 2-3 months for re-evaulation. I elected to put it up on a hanger and loosen the strings and try to not play it for as long as I can, then bring it back to her. My question is : will this remedy work? With the neck under tension from the truss rod and no string tension, one would expect it to back bow like crazy, which is what the tech is expecting. Then, loosen the truss rod to the desired relief. What do you think?

 

[sissy kathy]

Recently found out that the truss rod in my MIM Fender P-Bass has run out of adjustment room. I had a seasonal set up done, and the intonation corrected, and the tech did a good job; action fine, plays in tune all the way up the neck. But, I was advised that there is no more adjustment left in the neck. So, I was told to loosen the strings while not playing it, and bring it back in 2-3 months for re-evaulation. I elected to put it up on a hanger and loosen the strings and try to not play it for as long as I can, then bring it back to her. My question is : will this remedy work? With the neck under tension from the truss rod and no string tension, one would expect it to back bow like crazy, which is what the tech is expecting. Then, loosen the truss rod to the desired relief. What do you think?

Sounds good but, have no idea if it'll work.

 

[Zooberwerx]

Can the truss rod nut be removed? If so, a couple of washers may help. If not, consider this response from builder Pete Hanewinckel when queried about a similar situation:

"Yes, our truss rods use a 9/64” hex wrench and are two way adjustable, so the nut does not come off. If you need to get more out of the truss rod the best method is to loosen the strings, set the bass on your lap - p/u’s facing up, body on your right thigh, middle of the neck on your left thigh - then help push the nut downward some (backwards) while tightening the rod… this way you are helping the rod to ‘move’ the neck (the hardest part at this point) from there the rod has no trouble ‘holding’ the position. I have done this numerous times to other basses in for adjustment and it works very well. If you adjust it out too flat, or back bow, now problem, it’s easy to release some of the tension by loosening the nut. Please do be careful as the nut will break off of the rod at some point if tightened too hard. If this happens you will need a truss rod replacement.


If this doesn’t work you may either opt to wait out this very cold winter, use lighter gauge strings or have a local Luthier put the neck in a heated jig that can ‘reset’ the fingerboard; which I really don’t think would be necessary. Not every Luthier will have one of these but it’s basically a heated straight metal bar. They clamp the neck to it, turn on the heat for an hour or so, turn off the heat and let it set over night. I don’t believe you will have to do any of this if the above method is used.


Good luck and please let me know if you have any other questions or need further assistance.

Thank you,

Pete Hanewinckel"

The plan you described will be less-than-effective IME.

Riis

 

[96tbird]

You don't need a voodoo spell that takes a month to take effect. You need more threads.

Washers = more threads. No voodoo required.

Ugh.

Not to mention that the humidity situation will be totally different in 2-3 months and change the neck anyway. Probably in 12 months you'll be right back here where you started your story.

This problem is a mechanical problem with a mechanical solution. No place for mere HOPING it will sort out.

Ugh.

 

[fhm555]

I've seen the "bend it over your knee" method used on guitars to very good effect, but inasmuch as a bass is the same basic instrument, the pressures and forces acting on a bass neck in tension I would imagine to be much greater than that of a six string.

Based strictly on my experience with things mechanical, I'd lean toward the washer stack under the nut.

 

[MrBassman17]

Thanks to everyone for the suggestions. Right as it stands now, the neck is exactly where it should be, action is perfect and no fret buzzing, etc. I do live in the Northeast and the temp & humidity swings over the year play havoc with all my basses; some more than others, but I'm sure I will be adjusting the neck come late spring again! I had suggested adding washers behind the nut, and she said it would involve the fingerboard, which I thought was weird, so I left that topic alone. I'll see in the spring where it sits and make a decision then. For now, I think I will tune it back up, check the neck and play it! Stay tuned!

 

[Lownote38]

Thanks to everyone for the suggestions. Right as it stands now, the neck is exactly where it should be, action is perfect and no fret buzzing, etc. I do live in the Northeast and the temp & humidity swings over the year play havoc with all my basses; some more than others, but I'm sure I will be adjusting the neck come late spring again! I had suggested adding washers behind the nut, and she said it would involve the fingerboard, which I thought was weird, so I left that topic alone. I'll see in the spring where it sits and make a decision then. For now, I think I will tune it back up, check the neck and play it! Stay tuned!

The fingerboard??? It shouldn't involve the fingerboard at all. As long as you can back the truss rod nut off, you can put washers in and screw the nut back on.

 

[MrBassman17]

Lownote38, as has been mentioned in other threads, just because you are a qualified technician, doesn't necessarily mean you are a GOOD technician! When the tech mentioned here told me this, I kind of did a double-take - like what? But it was not the time or place to debate this. Since the last post, I have tuned up the bass and played it for a while today. Checked the relief and the action and intonation, and other than the questionable advice I was given, everything else is to my satisfaction.

 

[96tbird]

I had suggested adding washers behind the nut, and she said it would involve the fingerboard, which I thought was weird, so I left that topic alone.

Again, UHG.

You need to learn how to do setups for yourself. Putting your bass in the hands of such an un-knowledgable "tech" is not indicated any longer.

 

[sissy kathy]

Again, UHG.

You need to learn how to do setups for yourself. Putting your bass in the hands of such an un-knowledgable "tech" is not indicated any longer.

I'm not so sure his tech is "unknowledgeable" (ignorant) Her basic premise sounds solid but, with the cost of having the instrument out of use for an extended period of time. It would be interesting to see if this method works.

 

[AdmiralB]

This may be common knowledge (it sure isn't in guitarland), but you really shouldn't tighten the rod under tension.

It usually works but it's asking a lot of what is really a fairly puny piece of hardware. It's a lot easier on everything if you slack the strings, tighten the rod, and retune. It's a lot more trial and error, but it's easier on the neck and often gets more range of adjustment.

 

[iiipopes]

I ran out of adjustment on my custom P/J. I just put different strings on it and kept going. We buy instruments to play. Play it and don't worry about it. If it needs washers, go for it. If it needs the neck bent over the knee, go for it.

BTW - that is how pre-1984 Rickenbacker truss rods were adjusted: the strings were loosened, the neck was manually flexed and held in position, the nuts were tightened, the neck slowly released and the strings slowly retightened. Yes - it is much easier for a nut to keep the neck where it is than it is to move the neck.

 

[JLS]

This may be common knowledge (it sure isn't in guitarland), but you really shouldn't tighten the rod under tension.

It usually works but it's asking a lot of what is really a fairly puny piece of hardware. It's a lot easier on everything if you slack the strings, tighten the rod, and retune. It's a lot more trial and error, but it's easier on the neck and often gets more range of adjustment.

This is a really goofy idea. Backclamping the neck--you don't even have to loosen the strings--will nearly always get you where you need to go, if there's enough adjustment available with the trussrod.

 

[iiipopes]

This is a really goofy idea. Backclamping the neck--you don't even have to loosen the strings--will nearly always get you where you need to go, if there's enough adjustment available with the trussrod.

One reason for slacking, at least the D & A strings, is so there is enough space to actually adjust the truss rod, because a quarter turn will catch one or both strings.

 

[AdmiralB]

This is a really goofy idea. Backclamping the neck--you don't even have to loosen the strings--will nearly always get you where you need to go, if there's enough adjustment available with the trussrod.

Yes, so goofy that folks like Dan Erlewine practice and recommend it.

Backclamping would be fine, but I often forget to take my clamps and neck jig with me when I'm playing.

 

[tjh]

I have used washers several times .. mostly on older MIM Standards, but on some Squier Standards as well ... there are many on here that scoff at the idea of taking the tension off of the neck prior to moving the truss rod nut (either way), but on the older MIM Standards, I have found it extends their adjustability life .. at least in my mind it does, so I will continue to do it ... I dont do it on my lap, I stand the bass between my legs while seated, feet tight to body on both sides, pups toward right knee and light pressure with left knee against back of neck as I lightly pull headstock back with my left hand (it doesnt take much pressure here at all) .. I then turn the nut the desired direction with right hand ... in essence, I am taking relief out of the neck with my knee, and just using the truss rod nut to hold it in place, not relying on it to move the neck ..

I believe washers can be purchased online if you go that way, but I have always made my own .. the trick is that they are just the correct diameter as to not rub on the 'walls' of the opening , and slide freely up and down the truss rod as the nut is turned .. I will usually use at least two-three, just in case the first gets 'imbedded' in the wood, the subsequent one turns against that washer, not further 'mushrooming' the wood ...

In severe cases, where I get one with excessive relief and no adjustability left, I will work it in a 'fixture' over a period of time to defeat the woods memory, bringing the neck back into a slight back bow, then install a couple washers before I put it back into service ... the biggest issue I have had with these are on the MIM Standard Jazz necks from the 90's... probably just because of the slight profile, along with years of getting torqued on ...

... you could always try a switch to a lighter tension string to start with too as Zoober mentions ... or, take the tension off the neck for a few years, watching it every day, waiting for it to 'back bow like crazy', as your 'tech' suggests ...

JMHO's as always ... but, between this comment and her wanting to take your fretboard off to put washers on, you might want to look elsewhere for guidance (as also mentioned above)...

 

[iiipopes]

In severe cases, where I get one with excessive relief and no adjustability left, I will work it in a 'fixture' over a period of time to defeat the woods memory, bringing the neck back into a slight back bow, then install a couple washers before I put it back into service ...

Do you also use heat on the neck to help accomplish this, or just leave it clamped for a period of time?

 

[Lownote38]

Lownote38, as has been mentioned in other threads, just because you are a qualified technician, doesn't necessarily mean you are a GOOD technician! When the tech mentioned here told me this, I kind of did a double-take - like what? But it was not the time or place to debate this. Since the last post, I have tuned up the bass and played it for a while today. Checked the relief and the action and intonation, and other than the questionable advice I was given, everything else is to my satisfaction.

Gotcha. I've just never heard a tech mention the fingerboard in conjunction with a truss rod unless the truss rod needs to be replaced. I wouldn't call myself a qualified technician. I have put together and restored a bunch of Fender basses that people were ready to throw out, though. I'm honestly a bass player first, and secondly someone who knows how to repair the instruments I have.

 

[MrBassman17]

I have considered the idea of removing the neck and letting it sit for an extended period of time as TJH had suggested, if I could find a neck I liked that I can afford! I have several other basses, so being without is not an issue, but I really like this P-Bass a lot, and it is my main go-to gig bass. I think I'll wait until spring and after the weather changes again, I can re-evaluate the situation!
As always, the depth and quality of the comments and suggestions here on Talk Bass has bee outstanding - thank you all for your consideration!

 

[tjh]

Do you also use heat on the neck to help accomplish this, or just leave it clamped for a period of time?

I will just leave it clamped for a few days, then slightly change pressure points a few times .. I am never in a hurry, it didnt happen overnight so I make it a slow process to help the wood let go of its current memory ... many years ago we would 'curve' the blades on our hockey sticks (before they started making them curved), so I am familiar with various heat processes on wood, but never felt I needed it on necks and wanted it more controlled ...

I am far from a pro at any of it, but have had good luck with my needs just taking it slow and paying close attention to what it going on ...