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Willcox Bass Club (Lightwave)

#461
kirkdickinson said:
Yes, the optics are "fiddly" and changing strings is much more of a commitment than a regular bass with magnetics.

As far as the fuzz, you say your battery is charged and the LED is bright. I have noticed as my battery is dying the sound gets really fuzzy right before it completely quits. Is it possible that the battery has a bad cell and is not outputting the proper voltage?

Here is a test you can try. Plug the bass into the charging cord and then try it. If the fuzz goes away, then the battery is bad. If the fuzz doesn't go away, there may be a bad connector or possibly the power supply transformer or some part of the electronics has gone bad. Try the charging cord first and tell us what happens.

Good luck... :)
Click to expand...

Thanks for your suggestion. I didn't think it would hurt to check out the charger and battery, but I was skeptical it would reveal anything illuminating. On the other hand, I thought it was important to eliminate the battery and charging circuit as a cause, so here's what I did:

I'm a retired electronics tech by the way. So, I removed the battery clip from the board and measured the open circuit voltage which was a bit over 11 volts. The charger is putting out a bit over 11 volts. With the battery connected and the bass on and the charger disconnected, the voltage is 10.6volts.

I'm not a huge believer in coincidental failure, although it is possible. The bass sounded fine when I got it (except the dead B string as previously mentioned), and fine after I changed to the Cobalt flats and adjusted the optics. Then I changed to the exposed core strings and that's when the symptom occurred.

It would be an amazing coincidence if the battery decided to take a powder after the second string change, so I was not surprised when I found the battery and charger to be working just fine.

The fuzz does not change regardless of whether or not the charger is plugged in.

Without further ideas to check, I am tempted to reinstall the Cobalt flats and see if the symptom goes away.
 
#462
BQFS said:
Thanks for your suggestion. I didn't think it would hurt to check out the charger and battery, but I was skeptical it would reveal anything illuminating. On the other hand, I thought it was important to eliminate the battery and charging circuit as a cause, so here's what I did:

I'm a retired electronics tech by the way. So, I removed the battery clip from the board and measured the open circuit voltage which was a bit over 11 volts. The charger is putting out a bit over 11 volts. With the battery connected and the bass on and the charger disconnected, the voltage is 10.6volts.

I'm not a huge believer in coincidental failure, although it is possible. The bass sounded fine when I got it (except the dead B string as previously mentioned), and fine after I changed to the Cobalt flats and adjusted the optics. Then I changed to the exposed core strings and that's when the symptom occurred.

It would be an amazing coincidence if the battery decided to take a powder after the second string change, so I was not surprised when I found the battery and charger to be working just fine.

The fuzz does not change regardless of whether or not the charger is plugged in.

Without further ideas to check, I am tempted to reinstall the Cobalt flats and see if the symptom goes away.
Click to expand...

I would be surprised that the strings would be the problem. I have had the following strings on my two different Lightwaves...
(Fretted)
  1. Dean Markley SR2000 (my current favorite for fretted)
  2. SIT
  3. D'Addario rounds
(Fretless)
  • Labella Golds
  • D'Addaro Bronze Phosphor
  • Labella Blacks (my current favorite for fretless)
I would be suspecting an electronic problem. Blown cap, faulty connector, etc...

Have you contacted Willcox?
 
#463
I am in touch with Willcox and am ready to send the bass to them, because whatever is going on is mystifying. I concur with you, KirkDickinson, that there may be an electronic issue.

I reinstalled the Cobalts and the fuzz went away, but the output is very weak, which is NOT the way it was when I first installed them.

I think there is more than one problem. On the fourth string, the hex position is MUCH lower than the other ones, and on the third string (A) the hex screw is VERY hard to turn (the other four are very easy to turn).

When I adjust the hex screws by ear, as Rick from Willcox suggested, and then I go to "fine tune" it using the LED and rotary switch, the ear setting is VERY far apart from the LED setting, and the LED setting is much worse, weaker output.

I asked Rick if it was possible to send the bass back to them for repair. Even if I decide not to keep the bass, there is no way I am prepared to sell it in this condition. I only sell basses that are in perfect playing condition and this one is far from that.
 
#464
BQFS said:
I am in touch with Willcox and am ready to send the bass to them, because whatever is going on is mystifying. I concur with you, KirkDickinson, that there may be an electronic issue.

I reinstalled the Cobalts and the fuzz went away, but the output is very weak, which is NOT the way it was when I first installed them.

I think there is more than one problem. On the fourth string, the hex position is MUCH lower than the other ones, and on the third string (A) the hex screw is VERY hard to turn (the other four are very easy to turn).

When I adjust the hex screws by ear, as Rick from Willcox suggested, and then I go to "fine tune" it using the LED and rotary switch, the ear setting is VERY far apart from the LED setting, and the LED setting is much worse, weaker output.

I asked Rick if it was possible to send the bass back to them for repair. Even if I decide not to keep the bass, there is no way I am prepared to sell it in this condition. I only sell basses that are in perfect playing condition and this one is far from that.
Click to expand...

I'm really surprised that the string change made the fuzz go away. Really surprised. The mystery deepens. The monolith may be bad on the A string? Or at least have the adjuster stripped out.

I have replaced two of them over the years. One because my luthier broke it when he releveled the neck on my fretless. I suspect he tried to tune the B string to E and split the monolith. Can’t prove it. He is a guitar builder and not very familiar with 5 strings. Muscle memory may have had him tuning the lowest string to E without thinking about it. and the other because it just completely quit.

please keep us informed when you get this figured out.
 
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#465
kirkdickinson said:
I'm really surprised that the string change made the fuzz go away. Really surprised. The mystery deepens. The monolith may be bad on the A string? Or at least have the adjuster stripped out.

I have replaced two of them over the years. Please keep us informed when you get this figured out.
Click to expand...

Thanks, I sure will.

So far, I have received two responses from Rick at Willcox. I have to say they wasted no time in returning my emails.

At first, Rick indicated that it was possible to set the adjustment so that "the detector is looking at a side lobe of the emitter rather than the fundamental wavefront of it. Easy fix:

Rather than using the internal guitar setup procedure, use your ear. While the guitar is plugged into your amp and ready to play, adjust the optical carrier height using the set screw on the top of each bridge monolith. Pluck a string and adjust the height, it will take a few tries, but you will find the sweet spot. Don't wrench on the set screw, it is only threaded through the plastic of the optical carrier. Easy does it."

Well, easy didn't do anything. On a few of the five strings, I found the loudest position, but when I went to "fine tune" the process, the LED method was pretty far off from the ear method, so I figured something was still wrong. I wrote again, and got this response -

"This is the first I've heard about a set of strings not working, one or two, but not a whole set..

One last reality check:

1. Get a flashlight.
2. Sight down the neck into the optics cavity(s).
3. There is a small (0.1" x 0.1") white box on one side of the cavity, mounted to the PC board that makes up one side of the cavity. see it?
4. The white box needs to be exactly at the center of the string. Adjust the optics height to put the box at the center of the string."

It was easy to see the white box (on the right, looking down from the neck), but correctly adjusting it was something completely different. On the D and G strings, the box was very close to the correct position. On the A string, the screw had always been difficult to turn compared with the others, and I could not get the white box to move to the center of the string. On the B and E strings, I could move the box but still could not get it to the correct position.

I suggested to Rick that the issue was likely confined to the saddles themselves. That perhaps in order to save the cost of shipping, perhaps I could just remove the saddles, label them with the string which with they had been associated and send them. Alternatively, depending upon what Rick says, I could send them the entire bass which I am certainly willing to do. At least, if I send the entire bass, I am sure it will come back to me in perfect working order.

I will let you know which option I end up with, depending upon Rick's response.
 
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#466
I ended up sending the bass to Willcox. They had it for about a week and sent it back. During return shipping, the adjustments were knocked out of alignment, but this time, I was able to adjust everything back to normal.

Willcox did verify that the string choice DOES make a difference, and advised AGAINST using the exposed core strings. The accuracy of the light sensors depends on the size of the shadow of the string, and of course the thin exposed core strings don't cast much of a shadow, so when the bass was at Willcox, they put the Cobalt flats back on, which work perfectly well. I will use the exposed cores on my more conventional basses.

They are also sending me a set of tools, the ones that come with the bass.

The bad news is that, after everything was set up properly, I ended up just not liking the tone. There is nothing wrong with it, other than the sound, for want of a better description, is a bit too "modern" for me. I have been playing Stingrays as my main bass for over 50 years.

My main bass is an unlined fretless BFR Stingray Special. When it comes between picking which to play, it's the Stingray every single time. I don't keep basses I don't play regularly, so the Saber VL is now up for sale.

I have listed it in the usual places, but of course the best deal you will find is right here in the Classifieds. REASONABLE offers always accepted, free shipping included.
 
#467
It’s been a long time since I’ve been active on here but I now find I need some help from fellow Lightwave owners.

Due to life getting in the way I haven’t done much playing lately and decided to get the basses out the other day but my Sabre VL 5 fretless seems to have a dead pickup on the D string.

The other strings are fine it’s just the D.
So far I’ve made sure the battery is fully charged and holding charge, and I tried to reset the optics which was no problem on the other strings but impossible on the D due to no signal. I’ve done a visual check for and loose connections (and a gentle wiggle of the wiring) and everything looks ok.

I’ve emailed Lightwave support this week but have not had a reply yet.

As I’m in New Zealand sending it back to them is not an option so I’m open to suggestions.

Thanks all.
 
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#468
kiwi60 said:
It’s been a long time since I’ve been active on here but I now find I need some help from fellow Lightwave owners.

Due to life getting in the way I haven’t done much playing lately and decided to get the basses out the other day but my Sabre VL 5 fretless seems to have a dead pickup on the D string.

The other strings are fine it’s just the D.
So far I’ve made sure the battery is fully charged and holding charge, and I tried to reset the optics which was no problem on the other strings but impossible on the D due to no signal. I’ve done a visual check for and loose connections (and a gentle wiggle of the wiring) and everything looks ok.

I’ve emailed Lightwave support this week but have not had a reply yet.

As I’m in New Zealand sending it back to them is not an option so I’m open to suggestions.

Thanks all.
Click to expand...
One of the monoliths likely went bad. It is either the monolith, or something on the circuit board. Most likely the monolith. I have replaced two of them over the years. One on a used bass that I purchased (that came to me broken) and the other one because my luthier broke it when doing some work.

Here is what you can try to make sure it is the monolith and not the circuitry. Open up the back and carefully swap and D & G plugs that go from the monolith to the circuit board. If the dead string changes, your monolith is bad. If the dead string stays the same, something is wrong on the circuit board. I think last time I purchased a monolith, it was $60.
 
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#470
Well, after a bit of fiddling around with swapping the monolith plugs I have no idea what’s going on now.

It did something very strange as I unplugged the A monolith before unplugging the D and then tried the bass - the D string had come alive without moving it so I have no idea what’s going on now.

I also completely flattened the battery and recharged it to make sure there wasn’t any problem there - all good in that area.

Any ideas ????
 
#471
kiwi60 said:
Well, after a bit of fiddling around with swapping the monolith plugs I have no idea what’s going on now.

It did something very strange as I unplugged the A monolith before unplugging the D and then tried the bass - the D string had come alive without moving it so I have no idea what’s going on now.

I also completely flattened the battery and recharged it to make sure there wasn’t any problem there - all good in that area.

Any ideas ????
Click to expand...

Sounds like you have a short in the wires somewhere. Did the A come back to life after you plugged that back in? Might be time for a call to Willcox. I have called them a couple times and they were helpful.
 
#473
LW-ship-1.jpg


So, I haven't played my Willcox Lightwave Saber VL5 in a long time. A couple years ago I had Bronze Phosphor strings on it. They were cool strings. They had to much brightness and overtones. I loved them, but the tone really didn't fit playing mostly at church. Would have fit better with Metal. I decided to put black tapewounds on it. Those fit much better at church. I only played it a few times and didn't notice any problem. I always struggled with my intonation on it with those strings though.

So, Tuesday, I take it to my bass lesson and my teacher tells me, your intonation is not spot on like usual. Yeah, I know, I figured it was because I just hadn't played it in a while. I usually play an unlined bass and don't tend to look at the lines much, but maybe I was looking at the lines too much. But... my muscle memory was putting me sharp on all the notes. Worse on lower notes and better as I went up the neck.

I took it to band practice Wednesday night and struggled all the way through practice with intonation. I started paying special attention to where my fingers wanted to land and where they needed to be to be on pitch. The intonation point was as far as 1/4" behind the markers on some notes. At the line, I was pretty consistently 10-20 cents sharp on all the lower notes.

When I got home, I got out all my tools an took a hard look at the bass. I noticed that the tapewounds were sitting pretty high on the nut and the neck needed more relief. Relief was easy, I set the neck dead level straight. At this point, I realized that I needed to recut the nut. That was a little more difficult. I got out my micrometer and the B string on the black tapes was 140 + mil and the biggest nut file I had was 130. I wrapped some sand paper around it and got to work. I measured each string and then selected the nut file the next size bigger than each string and re-cut the slots. My Hosa files are not all that great and they take a long time to open each slot up. I put a 20 mil feeler gauge against the nut so that I wouldn't accidentally cut too deep. After an hour working on it, it seems to intonate much closer to the fret markers.

I am still not exactly where I think it should be. I think tonight, I will get out a 10 mil feeler gauge and give it another go.

I had another problem at practice. The sound man told me that I usually send him a lot of low end signal, but last night, he wasn't getting anything below 100 hertz. I checked my HX Stomp and I didn't have any high pass filters or anything. I dime-d the bass control on the bass and boosted the bass on my Tone Hammer.(Final pedal) He said he had much more bass. I am wondering if maybe the battery wasn't charged enough or the nut problem might have contributed in some way to the lack of bass?

When I work on it tonight, I will also re-align the sensors and make sure they are in the right place. With all this adjustment, they may be out of alignment.
 
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#475
Jesse Tong said:
I'm no expert, but when I switched to flats on mine it threw out the whole setup (I think due to the increased tension). I had to adjust the bridge pieces to fix the intonation then align all of the sensors. Aligning the sensors made the biggest difference in output for sure.
Click to expand...
Yeah, switching string types is a much greater commitment on these basses than other basses. Not just intonation, but sensor alignment. I did the whole setup when I switched to tapes, but didn't realize at the time there was a problem with the nut and the thicker strings. Have to apologize to all the band members that had to endure my bad fretless intonation back then. My ear wasn't as good as it is now and I was blindly playing with bad intonation without realizing it.
 
#476
kirkdickinson said:
Yeah, switching string types is a much greater commitment on these basses than other basses. Not just intonation, but sensor alignment. I did the whole setup when I switched to tapes, but didn't realize at the time there was a problem with the nut and the thicker strings. Have to apologize to all the band members that had to endure my bad fretless intonation back then. My ear wasn't as good as it is now and I was blindly playing with bad intonation without realizing it.
Click to expand...
Yup I actually stopped playing it for a while because I didn't want to do the whole setup again. It's more work than my other basses.
 
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#478
So, I decided to try another string set on my fretless Lightwave. Thomastik Infield Acousticores.

I ordered a set yesterday. Found some today "on-sale" for $110 vs $140+ other places. Got them here: Thomastik Infeld Acousticore Bass Strings; gauges 41-118

Never heard of gimmesomestrings.com before, but paid with PayPal so if I don’t get them, I am protected.
 
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#479
I got my Acousticore strings yesterday. Looks like gimmesomestrings.com is a legit place. Gonna remember them in the future when I need strings.

I was going to put them on last night, but I think when I have the strings off, my neck needs some love. I have some "fret sprout" from the fret lines on my fretless bass. Just put in an order for sandpaper from 320 up to 15000 and a radius sanding block. I don't have the bass in front of me and Willcox's website says that the new Sabers have a 14" radius, so that is what I ordered. I hope that has always been the standard or I may have to order a different sanding block. I already have a 10" and a 16" for other projects.
 

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