Just a thought for next year....
Any chance of a TB drool bucket being issued?....
I've ruined some very nice furniture and several shirts this year....
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Any chance of a TB drool bucket being issued?....
I've ruined some very nice furniture and several shirts this year....
Howdy folks, big congrats to Rojo412 on the beautiful bass and the win. I didn't want to post while voting was open but now that the closing ceremony has... well... closed, I can catch us up a bit on this bass.
So first things first, now that our wings have been rounded over and aligned with the body we can use our routing template to finish the profile on the end of the neck blank.
Now with our truss rod slot routed we can install the rod and glue on the fingerboard. The board gets a compound radius and then the frets are installed, leveled and roughly crowned.
Next we'll clamp the neck to our bench (tablesaw table) and rough out the neck profile.
And after sanding...
Now before we glue the wings to the neck blank we'll take a few minutes to do something both fun and useful at the same time. First we mount our bridge and tuners and then we can string this bad boy up to pitch. The bass tuners are hipshot ultralite with 3/8" posts and the octave string tuners are Gotoh non-locking guitar tuners. I've got one oddball silver tuner while I wait for the black replacement to arrive.
Big thanks to Curt Mangan Strings for being extra helpful with finding the right string gauges and getting them to me quickly.
Being a prototype there's almost always going to be something that comes up. Unfortunately I let the octave B string tuner get a little too close to the edge , creating a not so great angle from the nut to the tuner.
I may attempt to relocate the tuner later in the build but for now we'll move along. It's fun to play around with but the main goal here is checking the neck angle to the bridge. With the saddles completely lowered the strings sit just above the frets at the end of the fingerboard. This tells me I can use just a bit more neck angle, which can be adjusted when we glue the wings to the body.
That's it for tonight but next time we'll glue on the wings and turn this thing into a real instrument.
So first things first, now that our wings have been rounded over and aligned with the body we can use our routing template to finish the profile on the end of the neck blank.
Now with our truss rod slot routed we can install the rod and glue on the fingerboard. The board gets a compound radius and then the frets are installed, leveled and roughly crowned.
Next we'll clamp the neck to our bench (tablesaw table) and rough out the neck profile.
And after sanding...
Now before we glue the wings to the neck blank we'll take a few minutes to do something both fun and useful at the same time. First we mount our bridge and tuners and then we can string this bad boy up to pitch. The bass tuners are hipshot ultralite with 3/8" posts and the octave string tuners are Gotoh non-locking guitar tuners. I've got one oddball silver tuner while I wait for the black replacement to arrive.
Big thanks to Curt Mangan Strings for being extra helpful with finding the right string gauges and getting them to me quickly.
Being a prototype there's almost always going to be something that comes up. Unfortunately I let the octave B string tuner get a little too close to the edge , creating a not so great angle from the nut to the tuner.
I may attempt to relocate the tuner later in the build but for now we'll move along. It's fun to play around with but the main goal here is checking the neck angle to the bridge. With the saddles completely lowered the strings sit just above the frets at the end of the fingerboard. This tells me I can use just a bit more neck angle, which can be adjusted when we glue the wings to the body.
That's it for tonight but next time we'll glue on the wings and turn this thing into a real instrument.
Well now that we've had our fun we'll remove the strings and hardware from the neck blank and get ready for some glue. We start by spreading glue on the edge of the bass side wing and setting it in place. I like to let it set for about 5 minutes before clamping. This lets the glue begin setting so when I put on the clamps there is less chance of moving.
If you'll remember, when we made the bandsaw cuts to our neck blank we cut in a preliminary neck angle but left the blank around 1/8" or so thick. This was to allow for small adjustments to the final neck angle. Now that we know the angle needs to slightly increase it's simply a matter of shifting the wings placement on the neck blank. Flush to the face of the blank at the fingerboard, and near the back of the blank on the bridge end.
Next we'll use a router jig to route the neck blank flush with our wing and sand it clean. With the blank flush we can then align and glue on the other wing.
And now that we are all glued up we're starting to look like something.
A little bit more carving to even out the neck heel and since this is a prototype, we install our strings and bridge one last time to check that everything is properly set up.
Fortunately everything looks good so next time we'll route for pickups and start our final carving and sanding.
Thanks for following, and until we meet again...
If you'll remember, when we made the bandsaw cuts to our neck blank we cut in a preliminary neck angle but left the blank around 1/8" or so thick. This was to allow for small adjustments to the final neck angle. Now that we know the angle needs to slightly increase it's simply a matter of shifting the wings placement on the neck blank. Flush to the face of the blank at the fingerboard, and near the back of the blank on the bridge end.
Next we'll use a router jig to route the neck blank flush with our wing and sand it clean. With the blank flush we can then align and glue on the other wing.
And now that we are all glued up we're starting to look like something.
A little bit more carving to even out the neck heel and since this is a prototype, we install our strings and bridge one last time to check that everything is properly set up.
Fortunately everything looks good so next time we'll route for pickups and start our final carving and sanding.
Thanks for following, and until we meet again...
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Once you get a finish on that, It will be absolutely stunning!
Wait a minute. It's absolutely stunning already!
Wait a minute. It's absolutely stunning already!
- Apr 18, 2008
- 16,019
- 1
- 31,734
- Disclosures
- I'm highly opinionated and extremely self-assured
drooldrooldrool
(Beat ya to it @Fat Freddy !!)
(Beat ya to it @Fat Freddy !!)
So....You don't only have to be a better bass builder, you also have to be a better drooler....
You have taken away my reason to live!....
Nqw, nobody can replace you FF!So....You don't only have to be a better bass builder, you also have to be a better drooler....
You have taken away my reason to live!....
That is a gorgeous bass, almost a shame to put pickups on it.
- Apr 18, 2008
- 16,019
- 1
- 31,734
- Disclosures
- I'm highly opinionated and extremely self-assured
This, exactly. Were it not for your patient and expert guiding example, I would not be nearly the accomplished drooler that I am today. I owe it all to you, FF!
Now, about this bass - wow, sooooo nice! Being a big fan of multi-course basses, I’ve been wanting to try a ten-string for a while. But the lack of a bridge has been an obstacle. For a while now I’ve thought that it would be super-cool if Hipshot had replacement saddles for their A bridge that could accommodate multiple courses. I would certainly buy a fair few! Did that happen to be part of your discussions with them?
Unfortunately since the bass was ordered during the NAM show time I didnt have a ton of time to talk specifics. This bridge design was already set and they actually had most of the raw parts ready for finish before I ordered it. The baseplate is similar to the A type but not the same.
I'll be honest, while this bridge was a lifesaver and the only available option that I can find it still needs some design tweaks in my opinion. The first problem is that instead of top loading, the strings slide through holes in the back of the baseplate. Unfortunately these holes are so close together that one of the ball ends can't completely seat it self. I'd enlarge them a bit but that would damage the powder coat. Next time I order strings from Curt Mangan I'll try to get the octave strings with guitar ball ends instead of bass. One solution that comes to mind is running the bass strings through the body and the octave strings through the bridge but I have to think there's a way that either both strings could be top loaded or the bass strings could topload and the octave strings through the bridgeplate. Any of these would be better than the current setup.
A smaller issue but one that still bothers me is that I have to hand file the string notches in the bridge saddles. Now this is something I can do evenly with some care but I'd really rather it be done by the people with actual milling equipment and before the saddles get coated so I don't have to look at raw metal on a new bridge.
Probably my biggest personal gripe is the .750 string spacing. I don't really use a pick so this spacing is a bit tighter than I would prefer. The .750 plate was the only size available at the time though, and I suspect making a change would have involved a larger lead time and cost. I have thoughts about how to make some changes in the future but for now this will work just fine.
None of this is meant to be a dig at Hipshot because I think they make the best hardware on the planet but it's obvious that they don't sell enough of these double course bridges to really work all the kinks out of this design. If I were to make an 8 string tomorrow I'd take a long look at the Schaller bridge with dual saddles for each string pair. It looks to be a superior design but alas, only 8 strings, and that octave doubled B string is the best part.
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Well....The nice policeman managed to talk me down from the bridge....
Seems that I'm being taken somewhere "Nice and Safe" for a while....
Don't worry about me...I'll be fine....Sniffle.....
Yeah, I can sympathize about the hardware. Last summer, I helped Keith Horne develop out his new 10-string basses. I designed and built the special bridges, tailpieces, nuts and pickups for them. And I worked out all the string geometry and headstock layouts on the computer in AutoCad. It was a lot of work. Fine details and precision. And it's all critical to making an Octave Bass play correctly. There are a lot of details in building the structure too. If an Octave Bass is mushy on the bottom end, it ruins the whole effect. And it takes special tricks in the pickups too. They are complicated instruments.
When you push the edges of instrument building, you have to make almost all your own parts.
When you push the edges of instrument building, you have to make almost all your own parts.
Bruce, I grew up around metal work and one thing I know is that milling metal is definitely not for me. Wood is a much more gentle mistress so I shall remain faithful to her.
Fortunately, small flaws aside, the Hipshot bridge worked out well enough that I only had to slightly alter my normal build and with the neck through construction and 35" scale I don't think mushy low end will be an issue.
For pickups I'll be going with Nordstrand Big Blades with the clean and clear winding and a 3 band Nordstrand preamp wired at 18 volts. I put these in a fretless bass that I just sent to a customer and we both agreed that they sound amazing. They're definitely a modern sounding pickup and the high end is crystal clear. They brought out the best parts of the fretless bass and I think they'll be perfect for the 10 string. They also look fantastic with walnut and the wide blades will allow plenty of coverage for both strings.
The pickups and electronics should be here in 2 weeks or so which should give us just enough time to get the bass sanded and finished before they arrive.
Since I already have templates I can route for the pickups and work on final carving and shaping. I never know when to stop with the carving and shaping at the neck heel but this is not too far from making me happy.
I still kind of regret not going whole hog on the solid body wings but the 3/4" thick top is a good look and I'm sure I'll feel better when I make those other basses with the leftover walnut that I still have.
There's a couple more small things to do like drilling for the bridge ground wire and the barrel input jack but otherwise we're really close to a finished bass.
We'll look at it fresh tomorrow and see if we want to do any more carving and finish drilling those last few holes. We'll also take a look at that pesky B octave tuner and see if it's worth the trouble of moving it over on the headstock. What's life without something to look forward to, right?
Fortunately, small flaws aside, the Hipshot bridge worked out well enough that I only had to slightly alter my normal build and with the neck through construction and 35" scale I don't think mushy low end will be an issue.
For pickups I'll be going with Nordstrand Big Blades with the clean and clear winding and a 3 band Nordstrand preamp wired at 18 volts. I put these in a fretless bass that I just sent to a customer and we both agreed that they sound amazing. They're definitely a modern sounding pickup and the high end is crystal clear. They brought out the best parts of the fretless bass and I think they'll be perfect for the 10 string. They also look fantastic with walnut and the wide blades will allow plenty of coverage for both strings.
The pickups and electronics should be here in 2 weeks or so which should give us just enough time to get the bass sanded and finished before they arrive.
Since I already have templates I can route for the pickups and work on final carving and shaping. I never know when to stop with the carving and shaping at the neck heel but this is not too far from making me happy.
I still kind of regret not going whole hog on the solid body wings but the 3/4" thick top is a good look and I'm sure I'll feel better when I make those other basses with the leftover walnut that I still have.
There's a couple more small things to do like drilling for the bridge ground wire and the barrel input jack but otherwise we're really close to a finished bass.
We'll look at it fresh tomorrow and see if we want to do any more carving and finish drilling those last few holes. We'll also take a look at that pesky B octave tuner and see if it's worth the trouble of moving it over on the headstock. What's life without something to look forward to, right?
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Before finishing I decided to drill out the B string octave tuner hole and glue in a 1/2" walnut dowel, matching the end grain of the dowel to the grain direction of the headstock. I then moved the tuner about 1/8th" toward the inside of the headstock to decrease the angle from the nut. The patch turned out clean and only the tiniest bit of the dowel shows once the tuner is in place.
So after what always feels like an eternity our little man is all sanded up and ready for finish. We'll mount the bass on our finishing stand and apply our first coat of teak oil. I start by using a small brush to get into all the control cavities and then go back over the entire bass with a lint free rag.
That figure just pops right of the bass as soon as the oil hits it. Always one of the best parts of the build.
This will probably sound absurd to some of you but this is the first neck I've ever built from a single species and I believe it's also the least number of laminations I've ever used. Who woulda thought? I'm really loving the bookmatched grain.
We'll do a couple more applications of teak oil and then see how it looks. At that point I may go with it and assemble the bass but I'm leaning towards a few coats of tru oil to give it an actual built up finish that will offer some amount of protection.
So after what always feels like an eternity our little man is all sanded up and ready for finish. We'll mount the bass on our finishing stand and apply our first coat of teak oil. I start by using a small brush to get into all the control cavities and then go back over the entire bass with a lint free rag.
That figure just pops right of the bass as soon as the oil hits it. Always one of the best parts of the build.
This will probably sound absurd to some of you but this is the first neck I've ever built from a single species and I believe it's also the least number of laminations I've ever used. Who woulda thought? I'm really loving the bookmatched grain.
We'll do a couple more applications of teak oil and then see how it looks. At that point I may go with it and assemble the bass but I'm leaning towards a few coats of tru oil to give it an actual built up finish that will offer some amount of protection.
drool
- Apr 18, 2008
- 16,019
- 1
- 31,734
- Disclosures
- I'm highly opinionated and extremely self-assured
That figure is stunning! Agree on the delights of the first application of oil. Although for me that’s always tempered by the revealing of spots that need more sanding... 
@Big B.
Any tips or advice to dispense on applying Oil finishes? I have a Tru Oil build in my future, wondering if you sand with the oil as a grain filler, or just let the grain show through. Bass looks spectacular!
Any tips or advice to dispense on applying Oil finishes? I have a Tru Oil build in my future, wondering if you sand with the oil as a grain filler, or just let the grain show through. Bass looks spectacular!
Thank you my friend. I'll be honest, I've never tried the grain fill method with tru-oil. When I do an oil finish I like to see the grain instead of filling it. For a closed pore finish I always go with some type of clear coat finish.
As far as the teak oil goes the application is as simple as it gets. Just wipe it on with a clean rag and then wipe away the excess. Repeat 3 to 5 times and you're good to go.
The real secret to an oil finish is prepwork and sanding so make sure that you are really happy with your sanding before you apply the oil.
Tru-oil I've had more mixed success with. On woods with open pores like walnut and ash I've had fantastic results but with maple and other non-porous woods I find it is rather difficult to get a finish that isn't splotchy or streaky. I recently did two maple topped basses with tru-oil. They both went well for the first couple of coats but as soon as it started to build up like a clear coat I began having issues keeping the finish even. I've spoken to other builders who've had these same issues and while I'm sure there are techniques to alleviate these problems it should be remembered that tru-oil is a finish designed for gun stocks and gun stocks are usually made from porous woods and largely walnut.
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I say this with the utmost respect: I'm really glad you didn't finish in time!
This bass is stunning. The wood, the shaping, the innovation in the 10 string concept, finish, construction... There's no doubt this would have been the winner, IMO.
This bass is stunning. The wood, the shaping, the innovation in the 10 string concept, finish, construction... There's no doubt this would have been the winner, IMO.
