Wireless???

[Coelho]

Hi guys,

I APOLOGIZE.

actually the graphs are REVERSED. So the XDS graphs shows what is the difference from the original audio to it, and not the opposite.
So there is in fact a 3db gain all over up to 10K and then a drop in frequency after that (the reverse of what the graph shows) in full range.
In normal mode, there is attenuation after 2K (the reverse of the graph).

So we can say it is pretty much flat all the way to around 10K in full range mode (trs ring). After that there is a total drop.

Apologies.

 

[seanm]

Hi guys,

I APOLOGIZE.

actually the graphs are REVERSED. So the XDS graphs shows what is the difference from the original audio to it, and not the opposite.
So there is in fact a 3db gain all over up to 10K and then a drop in frequency after that (the reverse of what the graph shows) in full range.
In normal mode, there is attenuation after 2K (the reverse of the graph).

So we can say it is pretty much flat all the way to around 10K in full range mode (trs ring). After that there is a total drop.

Apologies.

Ok, I just did a little A/B test.

Test equipment: P bass or Lakland 55-01 -> ART Mic Pre -> Behringer EP1500 -> EA CXL112 with tweeter up full. I used the same cable to plug in the X2 or go straight, just as I would live.

I listened as carefully as I could, expecting to hear more brightness in the upper notes. But the straight cable sounded slightly brighter on the higher notes.

So Coelho, I am glad you corrected what the graph shows since it does agree with what I heard. I was not in full range mode since I have the right angle stock cable (which is an upgrade from the cable provided).

My conclusion is that I would still recommend the X2 as a wireless. I would never have noticed the difference live. But I will now add the caveat that if you really like a bright tone, you will lose some of the top end.

Coelho, thanks again for taking the time to give us accurate results.

 

[JimmyM]

Hi guys,

I APOLOGIZE.

actually the graphs are REVERSED. So the XDS graphs shows what is the difference from the original audio to it, and not the opposite.
So there is in fact a 3db gain all over up to 10K and then a drop in frequency after that (the reverse of what the graph shows) in full range.
In normal mode, there is attenuation after 2K (the reverse of the graph).

So we can say it is pretty much flat all the way to around 10K in full range mode (trs ring). After that there is a total drop.

Apologies.

Hey, I've been there my own self. I know what it's like.

But seriously, 10k is plenty enough high end for me. Your average cable only delivers 12K tops. And even if I liked tweeters, I wouldn't want any more than that. So the X2 stays. Wonder where that +3db comes from, though. Sounds like unity gain to me just listening, but who knows?

 

[fokof]

below you can see 3 graphs:
-Fodera cable against original audio (totally flat, amazing)
-XDS95 agains original audio (lower about 3db all across up to around 2K, then starts getting close to 0db all the way up to 10K, where it gets really crazy and adds A LOT of stuff. You really need equipment that can reproduce > 10Khz to hear it.
-XDS95 "full range" against original audio (similar to the above but more linear all the way up to 10 K, where it gets crazy again).

I suspect there is a limitation above around 10K and this creates audio artifacts. Maybe the higher end models don't behave like this.

You can also do tests of the noise floor and the dynamics.
Two other big disadvantage of wireless.

 

[seanm]

You can also do tests of the noise floor and the dynamics.
Two other big disadvantage of wireless.

The dynamics are great. The digital systems don't have the compression problems that the analog systems do. At the expense that it eats batteries.

 

[JimmyM]

Ya, they're a little dishonest about battery life at X2. They say < 11 hours on a transmitter and < 8 on a receiver, but it's more like 6-7 on a transmitter and 4 on a receiver.

 

[Jimi Cleek]

[Invalid or Expired Link Removed]

The XDS 95 Receiver is only speced to 12k For full bandwidth you will need the XDR or XDS Plus.
I play through an Ashdown ABM500 and an Accugroove ElWhappo. Other than a slight difference in gain I honestly can't hear a difference between wire and and my XRD95 system. Add that to being able to get out and listen to the PA system for sound checks, dancing with our female fans, and the freedom from getting tangled up in my guitar players cable all the time and this thing is priceless.

Jimi

 

[georgestrings]

You can also do tests of the noise floor and the dynamics.
Two other big disadvantage of wireless.

I have to totally disagree with both assertions - I haven't lost ANY dynamics, and my XDR-95 is dead silent - including for recording... Maybe you got a bad one, but my experiences with X2 products directly contradict yours - same thing with a couple of bassists in my area that bought them after checking out mine...



- georgestrings

 

[GeneralElectric]

I had an X2 and wasn't happy with it. I got a Sennheiser and now I'm in heaven. I just wish I knew where to get extra transmitters for my basses.

 

[Crazyeelboy]

I've had two X2s and they are great - except for one thing - the standard cable they come with is just crap. Get replacement cables from other sources from the start and that thing will work great.

 

[fokof]

I have to totally disagree with both assertions - I haven't lost ANY dynamics, and my XDR-95 is dead silent - including for recording... Maybe you got a bad one, but my experiences with X2 products directly contradict yours - same thing with a couple of bassists in my area that bought them after checking out mine...

You tell me that if you add between a bass and a preamp a cheap A\D with it's analog circuitry , transmitter , receiver , cheap D\A and it's analogue circuitry , and it won't add any noise or change the tone ?

 

[seanm]

You tell me that if you add a cheap A\D with it's analog circuitry , transmitter , receiver , cheap D\A and it's analogue circuitry , and it won't add any noise or change the tone ?

Yup we are I also notice no extra noise with the X2.

And according to Coelho's graphs, it doesn't change the tone *except* over 10kHz.

 

[fokof]

Yup we are I also notice no extra noise with the X2.
And according to Coelho's graphs, it doesn't change the tone *except* over 10kHz.

All circuits will add noise.
All circuits change frequency response.

We are not talking GML preamp or EQ here.......

But eh! , if it doesn't change your tone , lucky you!

 

[seanm]

All circuits will add noise.
All circuits change frequency response.

True... but then again Newtonian physics are also incorrect, but I really can't remember the last time I was doing anywhere near the speed of light

 

[Marley's Ghost]

I have been giggin with the x2 since January. No perceptible diff to cable live to my ears. Saturday night, my alkaline 9v lasted through about 3 hours of live performance in the transmitter, with 4/5 battery left. I use a wall wart for the receiver.

One thing I have learned is that when the power drops to 4 led's. change the battery. It is a steep drop to no power from there.

 

[JimmyM]

You tell me that if you add between a bass and a preamp a cheap A\D with it's analog circuitry , transmitter , receiver , cheap D\A and it's analogue circuitry , and it won't add any noise or change the tone ?

Don't know where a $300 wireless is considered "cheap." Maybe in the Hamptons or Martha's Vineyard it is. But to answer your question, that is exactly what I'm saying.

 

[fokof]

Don't know where a $300 wireless is considered "cheap." Maybe in the Hamptons or Martha's Vineyard it is. But to answer your question, that is exactly what I'm saying.

I worked on TV shows that had multi thousand dollar units and they sounded bad compared to a 25$ wire.

 

[mrokern]

I haven't noticed any change with the X2, even through IEMs. It's pretty incredible, actually.

If a high-end wireless is sounding that bad compared to a cable, either you're doing something wrong or there's a gear malfunction.

I've used most of what's out there, and once you get above a certain level it's negligible. Not saying that in a studio listening environment you wouldn't hear a difference, but in a live environment?

-Mark

EDIT: I could see where you'd have possibly noticed a difference in TV world, assuming you were in the truck or booth listening to studio monitors / phones and had the chance to A/B signals. Still...a Sennheiser body with Neumann capsule is gonna sound pretty rocking...

 

[georgestrings]

You tell me that if you add between a bass and a preamp a cheap A\D with it's analog circuitry , transmitter , receiver , cheap D\A and it's analogue circuitry , and it won't add any noise or change the tone ?

Well, I don't know where you the "cheap" part of this, because I don't consider a $500 racked wireless to be all that cheap - and I also don't know where you get the "analog" part of this, because the X2 is digital - but, yes - after we get past your erroneous assumptions, that's exactly what I'm saying... I sure would like to witness you doing a blind A/B between the cable of your choice, and my XDR-95 - because I think you'd find it to be enlightening...


- georgestrings

 

[georgestrings]

I worked on TV shows that had multi thousand dollar units and they sounded bad compared to a 25$ wire.

How long ago was that???



- georgestrings