With so much good used gear on the market...who buys new anymore?

[FilCo]

Incapable of writing your own stories are you?

Well, I could certainly use some more practice, if that's what you mean. The point I am trying to make is specifically about the tools we use to create our stories. No matter how great an instrument might be, new or used, it won't play itself. However, you could describe the creative process as being a kind of partnership between the player and his/her chosen instrument. I prefer partners that have some experience.

 

[Imaginary Pony]

Virgins can be fun!

 

[Baird6869]

I bought 2 new Foderas in 2003 and have a new Valenti on order for early 2014 delivery.

I bought these basses new as as I have had about 100 low end to very high end basses over the last 8-9 years and now know EXACTLY what I like in a bass.... Neck radius, string spacing, neck scale, type of body wood, neck wood, fingerboard wood, electronics, type of pickups and even the weight range.

I was willing to pay to get exactly what I want and I am very happy.

I also own 40+ year old Fenders and brand new ones. The whole mojo thing to me is a bunch of crap. To say old basses that have been played for years are universally better than new ones (that are all lifeless zombies?) due to vibration, old wood, etc. is completely unproven. IME, new basses can be much better than old very expensive collector pieces.

I have both and to say one is better than the other across the board is ignorant IME.

 

[FilCo]

I thought it would take a more inflammatory post to be called out as both incapable and ignorant so quickly.

 

[Skip_NJ]

I've bought a couple basses used, but getting a custom optioned Carvin was too tempting and my soon-to-be wife bought it for me, so my last new bass purchase was in June. I wouldve been happy with a used bass but she didnt want to spend over $500 on something with no guarantee or warranty.

 

[Chuck King]

The basses I have that I bought new are basses that were not available used because they were new models---a Gibson Money bass (a Gibson "guitar of the week" that was a very limited run) and a Fender FSR Antigua Jazz Bass. Okay, yes, I'm sure there are other Jazz Basses out there in the Antigua finish, but they are not really Used Instruments, they are Collectibles, which is a whole different market. When Fender did runs of a handful of instruments in Antigua a couple years ago, it seemed like that was about the only opportunity I was likely to have for a while to get one at a reasonable price. Of course, since buying these I have seen them used, but not often---it's not like you could decide you wanted one and find one easily within a short time. [Edit: Antigua Jazz Basses I see for sale presently used are going for about the same price mine cost new; Money basses are going for substantially more than I paid when they were being blown out in 2007.]

I don't know if it counts as buying a new bass, but, I've built a couple parts basses, one of which was made from a new neck and body from Warmoth. Another had a neck I bought new put on a used Fender body. I suppose the dynamics are the same, building a bass from new parts vs. buying a new bass---if I were to sell the necks and/or body I would take the price hit, but inasmuch as I like how the Warmoth necks feel, I don't see any reason that I would ever sell them, and the body was reasonably priced versus buying a quality used body and having it refinished in the color I wanted.

My other basses I got used, and I really can't see buying a new version of something like a Fender P or J, or some other relatively common bass like a T-bird, Stingray, 4003, etc.---except in one circumstance, which relates to another bass I bought new, which my dad is using now but is still "in the family". Almost twenty years ago, I bought a new Fender Precision. I hadn't intended to buy it when I went to the store, but I picked it up and it just spoke to me. It played and sounded great, and it felt like an old friend. If I came across another bass that just had that certain special something, I wouldn't let it get away just because it was new. But that doesn't happen very often, especially since now after years of TB membership I've got a bunch of nice basses and I don't really shop very actively any more.

 

[drTSTingray]

The fundamental difference between the new and used basses I bought this year are the scrapes and dings from previous owner activities - some may call it mojo, I think it's just slapdash treatment of the instrument - it certainly doesn't sound any better IMHO and in terms of functional wear (eg frets) it's fine. The two advantages it has are the scrapes can't be seen from a distance so the bass looks better than it is (important to perfectionists) and I don't have to worry about it being dinged at jam sessions.

On the other hand the brand new one has a beautiful finish which turns heads, and is every bit as good as the 20 plus year old one in terms of playability. I'm with Baird - vintage mojo is, to an extent boll*ck* IMHO. I thought that when I played a very nice 59 Precision but functionally it was no better than the new MIA Precision I played in a shop a few days before (but it was a 60th anniversary one).

However I'm grateful so many people think vintage is that much better as it will help owners residual values in years to come [emoji6] - back in the 70s a new Precision was a quarter of a 20 something year olds annual salary. The famous musos distanced themselves from everyone else by having name instruments whereas others had cheaper copies. These days a lot of famous musos seem to distance themselves from others by having v expensive vintage instruments with 'mojo' - oh and a new, discounted MIA Fender is more like a tenth of the minimum legal wage in the UK - an MIM even less.

The world has changed but still many famous musicians distance themselves by having v expensive (comparatively) instruments. They are now vintage (with added mojo!!). Fair play if people like them - that's up to them.

 

[ole Jason]

Musicians Friend will discount most things 20-25% if you call them. I just bought a new Mono bag for less than people ask for used ones on here.

 

[drTSTingray]

This is true - so long as you don't have to make a special factory order for what you want.

 

[dkelley]

Purchased a 'new' (N.O.S.) ATK300 (Indonesian) in 2013 just before heading over here to China - I had sold off all my gear and the local store was offering it for $400 tax in, out the door with a nice Fender gig-bag. Seemed like a decent piece to bring over due to versatility AND the all important factor that when the neck was removed both pieces easily fit into my suitcase (wrapped in clothes) couldn't get any of the my Fender style headstock basses to fit...

Prefer used

That way of moving a bolt on bass is absolutely brilliant!

 

[kcole4001]

Sometimes new is better.
It depends entirely on the item and your preferences.

Sometimes new is a better deal.
Sometimes all the used stuff you can find locally is crap.
Sometimes people want way too much for their used crap.
Often people won't ship across the border.

 

[nosnowking]

I'll add my voice to the "It depends" crowd.

As fashions change it's possible to pick up some fantastic deals on new instruments if they are being discontinued, whether in terms of design, woods, or simply colour changes.

I'd like to think that in the "good ol' days" guitars were well made by luthiers, sweating blood and tears to make an instrument. However, as the world moves on and manufacturing processes improve I am more and more impressed by Far Eastern manufactured instruments. And who am I to say that a western craftsman paid 100X the wages is superior to an Eastern craftsman working under licence to a Western company.

Some people want waaaaaayyy too much for anything with an 'F' or 'MM' on the headstock...I could probably find ten MIM jazz basses in the next 30 seconds on eBay that are being sold at higher than current new retail price at my local store. But hey, I can't argue with market demand...its the same with motorcycles, cars, surfboards and anything else in a niche market. "PERCEIVED" quality products will demand a high used price, but mass manufactured items seem to drop in value very quickly. Manufacturers such as 'F' and 'MM' have to pay higher and higher wages to hand-produce those products to the same exacting standards. It makes the used market seem like a good place to be at first, but if you have your heart set on something special it may not be the best.

 

[Jaco Taco]

Since I'm into custom basses, I basically have to buy new. Other than that, I can see the logic in buying used.

 

[pudgychef]

I'll add my voice to the "It depends" crowd.

As fashions change it's possible to pick up some fantastic deals on new instruments if they are being discontinued, whether in terms of design, woods, or simply colour changes.

I'd like to think that in the "good ol' days" guitars were well made by luthiers, sweating blood and tears to make an instrument. However, as the world moves on and manufacturing processes improve I am more and more impressed by Far Eastern manufactured instruments. And who am I to say that a western craftsman paid 100X the wages is superior to an Eastern craftsman working under licence to a Western company.

Some people want waaaaaayyy too much for anything with an 'F' or 'MM' on the headstock...I could probably find ten MIM jazz basses in the next 30 seconds on eBay that are being sold at higher than current new retail price at my local store. But hey, I can't argue with market demand...its the same with motorcycles, cars, surfboards and anything else in a niche market. "PERCEIVED" quality products will demand a high used price, but mass manufactured items seem to drop in value very quickly. Manufacturers such as 'F' and 'MM' have to pay higher and higher wages to hand-produce those products to the same exacting standards. It makes the used market seem like a good place to be at first, but if you have your heart set on something special it may not be the best.

of course Fender isn't, wasn't and (other than CS) was never intended to be a group of luthiers labouring over their artisanal craft..it was always intended to be a factory producing instruments to the greatest 'mass' they were capable of. Just like Cor-Tek or any number of overseas facilities

 

[bassbenj]

I also own 40+ year old Fenders and brand new ones. The whole mojo thing to me is a bunch of crap. To say old basses that have been played for years are universally better than new ones (that are all lifeless zombies?) due to vibration, old wood, etc. is completely unproven. IME, new basses can be much better than old very expensive collector pieces.

I have both and to say one is better than the other across the board is ignorant IME.

While I agree that I don't think the "vibration" of playing somehow makes a bass better the "mojo" thing isn't totally crap and does have some subtlety.

Ask yourselves what basses get sold? Well the basses people dump are basses that for some reason they don't like. That would tend to make the used market full of dogs, except we are talking about musicians here. And you know how they (we) are! They'll pay big money for some high end instrument and then decide that they can't stand it for some silly reason like the pickguard has one too many screws holding it on or something! That one is opportunity knocking! The dog that is flipped because it has tone like cardboard and a twisted neck that can't be fixed is the one that is no bargain. But I did buy a LOT of gear for a song from a local bass player who had no idea what he wanted. So he'd get gas and buy this or that. Play it for a few months and then have it for sale at the local drum store (where I scarfed it up) and move on to the next GAS item. His confusion was my gain.

Which brings up another point. Really great instruments are "keepers" and that means they don't get sold. So I found this Ken Smith for $300 that had great grooves worn in the frets and the tuners were literally worn out! So my thinking was that this high mileage bass was a player and keeper. The mojo on it reflected that. But the owner decided it had reached end of life and dumped it. So putting all this together in my head I jumped on it thinking it probably would take some serious coin to restore. But I was wrong. A fret job and tuners and the rest was just a few hundred bucks. And my estimation of it being a keeper was right on! Restored that bass was (is) a totally amazing player and natch it's now MY "keeper" so it won't be on the used market soon.

And that's why when I buy used, I want to try it before I buy it. One needs to find out if it's a "keeper" that found it's way on to the market or a twisted neck dog that nobody wants.

 

[Iridescentone]

[QUOTE="nosnowking, post: 16519914, member: 268856"


Manufacturers such as 'F' and 'MM' have to pay higher and higher wages to hand-produce those products to the same exacting standards.
[/QUOTE]

Wait...suddenly Fender and EBMM instruments are "hand produced"? Where are you getting that? They are "still" mass produced. Same as it ever was.

 

[FretNoMore]

There is nothing worse than a new instrument. They are pretty much like soul-less zombies, and I barely want to touch them. I almost exclusively buy used because I like to think that the experience, usage, miles, story, etc., add to the essential character and definition of the instrument, which makes them much more appealing.

I have a completely opposite view on this. Used gear is just ... used. And often abused. You don't know how it's been treated and all the use and miles put on it only adds wear and tear. There's no magic added by previous owners, only their sweat, bar room smoke and dirt. To me used gear is more often appalling than appealing.

With very few exceptions I only buy new; I want any dings and scratches to be my own, know there is no weird history, get warranty repairs, and avoid haggling with people trying to get unreasonably money for their used gear.

 

[drTSTingray]

[QUOTE="nosnowking, post: 16519914, member: 268856"


Manufacturers such as 'F' and 'MM' have to pay higher and higher wages to hand-produce those products to the same exacting standards.

Wait...suddenly Fender and EBMM instruments are "hand produced"? Where are you getting that? They are "still" mass produced. Same as it ever was.[/QUOTE]

EBMM are hand finished - no two neck are absolutely identical - that said the attention to detail is great. To get a comparable Fender you will need to get a CS one, and even that wouldn't be 'hand' built in the true sense of the word. Fenders regular current business model is for mass production on a scale out of all comparison with other makes, and CS is the only way I'd get a decent colour choice, for instance.

The other thing with a new bass which appeals to many is the feeling of having a brand new item and for instance, smelling that brand new smell every time you open the case, rather like a new car - and feeling that brand new - hopefully flawless - finish. Where it all goes wrong is with manufacturers whose consistency of output is variable. However I don't totally buy that argument either as the level of inconsistency in tone is no doubt minor compared with the sound variation created by tweaking one EQ knob on an amplifier.

 

[lowfreq33]

I just bought a Rumble 500 v3 new. Main reason that it was exactly what I needed, and they haven't been around long enough for many to pop up on the used market, plus I needed it quickly since I blew the speaker on my "light enough to drag down the street 3 blocks to the gig" rig, which was obviously not enough amp for the gigs I was running it at, so replacing the driver seemed like a waste of money since more than likely I'll just end up blowing it again.

 

[MegaSwing]

New isn't evil by a long shot. Sometimes it's just necessary—particularly for products that haven't been on the market long. It is never my first instinct. I've also grown to dislike the culture inside the typical music store, with wankers and obtuse, pressing sales people. Used gear and person-to-person dealings are so much more to my liking.