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Double Bass Wizzy M-line 12 vs. VL-208, single cab heft?

#21
robgrow said:
In my experience, the VL-208 can't get significantly louder than the Wizzy M, so I don't think you'd gain much in that regard. I usually use my Wizzy M because it's lighter and easier to schlep. The VL-208 sounds great, but it's just not as efficient in terms of sound per pound or sound per watt as the Wizzy M. Still a wonderful speaker cabinet though, and you'd probably love it.
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I suppose in midrange it has a similar capacity for throw however the low end on the VL 208 is stronger, tighter and more authoritative than the MLine and I think it throws a lot more sound (especially lows) in the room than the MLine when both are pushed hard.

If I thought they were interchangable I'd have sold my 208s for the Mline being that it's so easy to schlep. At least in my applications that's not so.
 
#22
Uncletoad said:
One last thought. I've never done a shootout between the Neo 210 and the VL208. I gather than the Neo 210 would be an easier schlep. Don't know if the resuting sound would be happening as the 208 but I bet it gets just as loud in volume and low end wars.
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I just got done comparing the VL-208, NM-208 (the new model), M-line Wizzy (which shares the same enclosure as the NM-208), and the NL-210 for a Quick Look review of the NM-208 in the upcoming issue of BGM. Without spoiling the review, while each cab has its own character, there are certainly common themes throughout. A 4-ohm NL-210 should not be crossed off your list, for sure!

Tom.
 
#25
tombowlus said:
I just got done comparing the VL-208, NM-208 (the new model), M-line Wizzy (which shares the same enclosure as the NM-208), and the NL-210 for a Quick Look review of the NM-208 in the upcoming issue of BGM. Without spoiling the review, while each cab has its own character, there are certainly common themes throughout. A 4-ohm NL-210 should not be crossed off your list, for sure!

Tom.
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Hmm. I guess you should bring all those AND the NL210. We'll do a Brian Glassman custom shootout. The only thing missing is the man himself.

Now see Brian, there's an excuse to come visit this godforsaken place!
 
#26
bribass said:
My M-line is 4ohm. The VL-208 is 8ohm. That wouldn't work too well together, right?
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This is a good question. The impedance is cool for the AI Focus as you know, but I've always wondered what the deal would be when you pair a speaker with lower impedance/higher sensitivity with one with higher impedance/lower sensitivity. Anyone know? Would the 4ohm cab be a lot louder than the 8ohm cab?

BTW, I love my M-line 12. I wish it did have a better response on the low B (thanks for pointing that out, Toad! now I notice it all the time :spit:), but it's such a great cab. I paired it once with my regular Wizzy 12 and I felt like I was riding on a magic carpet of bass happiness.
 
#28
AI says it's ok.

From their site:

Can I use your amps with a 16 ohm speaker? What happens if I connect an 8 ohm speaker and a 4 ohm speaker at the same time?

Because our amps are solid state amps, they automatically adjust for any impedance load. But, as you can see from our ratings, the power output depends on the impedance. The power rating at 16 ohms will be about half of the 8 ohm rating. You can mix cabinets of different impedance ratings. Just be sure that the overall impedance is at or above the 2 ohm rating of the amps. If you mix impedances like combining 4 ohm and 8 ohm cabinets, more power will flow to the lower impedance cabinet so you may have an imbalance in output and sound quality. If in doubt, try it and see how it sounds.
 
#29
Jeremy Allen said:
This is a good question. The impedance is cool for the AI Focus as you know, but I've always wondered what the deal would be when you pair a speaker with lower impedance/higher sensitivity with one with higher impedance/lower sensitivity. Anyone know? Would the 4ohm cab be a lot louder than the 8ohm cab?

BTW, I love my M-line 12. I wish it did have a better response on the low B (thanks for pointing that out, Toad! now I notice it all the time :spit:), but it's such a great cab. I paired it once with my regular Wizzy 12 and I felt like I was riding on a magic carpet of bass happiness.
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If I am reading this correctly the question is more along the lines of:

At what point does the lower sensitivity of a 4 ohm cabinet make it equal to or less then the output of a 8 ohm cabinet.
 
#30
peterpalmieri said:
If I am reading this correctly the question is more along the lines of:

At what point does the lower sensitivity of a 4 ohm cabinet make it equal to or less then the output of a 8 ohm cabinet.
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A 4-ohm cabinet does not necessarily have lower sensitivity than an 8-ohm cabinet. In fact, the 4-ohm Wizzy has a higher sensitivity rating than the 8-ohm VL-208 in this case.

The response that Marc posted from AI above is the reality here.
 
#32
robgrow said:
A 4-ohm cabinet does not necessarily have lower sensitivity than an 8-ohm cabinet. In fact, the 4-ohm Wizzy has a higher sensitivity rating than the 8-ohm VL-208 in this case.

The response that Marc posted from AI above is the reality here.
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I'm sorry I tricked myself out on that one. I assumed common knowledge that the 4 ohm cab gets twice as much power as the 8 ohm. And thought he was asking "what if" the 4 ohm cabinet had a very low sensitivity and the 8 ohm had a very high sensitivity.
 
#33
OK, sorry for the confusion. What I'm saying is:
1) A more sensitive cabinet will sound "louder" (sorry, I know loudness is a psycho-acoustic thing) than a less sensitive cabinet when the same amount of wattage is applied to it, yes? And--
2) As AI says and I was hoping was understood in my previous post, more power will flow to the cabinet with lower impedance, so--
3) When you combine a more sensitive (more sound per watt applied) cabinet with lower impedance (receives more wattage) and a less sensitive (less sound per watt applied) cabinet with higher impedance (receives less wattage to boot), will the first cabinet be producing way more sound than the second?

So my question, and the one I thought Brian was asking as well (but maybe not), was more along the lines of "would the Wizzy M-line be blowing the VL208 out of the water from a sound pressure level standpoint if you paired the two, thereby making it a less-than-efficient pairing?"

The answer is probably "Whatever, dude. Just stack up some EA cabs with an amp that can deal with the impedance and the good Lord will provide." But that's what I had intended to ask, FWIW.
 
#34
Not to get off topic but...since we are talking about schlepping rigs. How do you guys haul the M-line 12? I have both the 12 and wizzy 10. I find my lazy self gravitating towards the wizzy 10 as the haul is SO nice. The M-line is awkward as a 1-trip-to-the-car cab...unless you guys have a tip to carrying it? Anybody use a soft case for the M-Line?
 
#36
Jeremy Allen said:
So my question, and the one I thought Brian was asking as well (but maybe not), was more along the lines of "would the Wizzy M-line be blowing the VL208 out of the water from a sound pressure level standpoint if you paired the two, thereby making it a less-than-efficient pairing?"

The answer is probably "Whatever, dude. Just stack up some EA cabs with an amp that can deal with the impedance and the good Lord will provide." But that's what I had intended to ask, FWIW.
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Yes. That's not what Brian asked...keep up.

In your question I suspect the Mline 4 ohm will make more noise than the 208 8 ohm when run together. That could be good or bad I dunno. I'll let you know after Dec 12 when I do just that.
 
#37
RShew said:
Not to get off topic but...since we are talking about schlepping rigs. How do you guys haul the M-line 12? I have both the 12 and wizzy 10. I find my lazy self gravitating towards the wizzy 10 as the haul is SO nice. The M-line is awkward as a 1-trip-to-the-car cab...unless you guys have a tip to carrying it? Anybody use a soft case for the M-Line?
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when I had the M-line 12 I used this folding hand truck ($40) to move it around with: http://images.lowes.com/product/808679/808679100010.jpg

side note: sold the M-line to get a EA CXL112L, more midrange like the Wizzy 10 (have 2 Wizzy 10's in the arsenal btw) and I'm digging the heavier bottom that you can't get with a single 10.

the cart can handle the speaker, a folding stool, footrest, music bag and amplifier! to keep the load together, I use a cargo strap to hold it secure to the cart and a bungee cord to keep the music bag and stool from falling off.
 
#38
Uncletoad said:
Yes. That's not what Brian asked...keep up.
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Well, that's what I get for barging into the middle of a thread! But actually this is what I was asking, using a lot more words than necessary as I have an unfortunate tendency to do (which may or may not be the result of my upbringing, or level of fatigue, or alcohol consumption, or a combination of the three mitigated by a lack of understanding of the basic physics of...see, I'm doing it again):
bribass said:
Wouldn't there be a volume difference between an 8ohm and a 4ohm cab when using them together?
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So I'll wait for Dec. 12th...
 
#39
Well I'll explain a bit about my original question. I own a Wizzy 10 and two Wizzy M-line 12 cabs. I'm finding that either the 10 or 12 cover me for 90% of my work quite well. I have the 2nd m-line 12 to put the 2 together for stupid loud doubling or EB gigs. The two M-lines sound great stacked together, though it is pretty rare that I do this because one is pretty darn loud. I saw a VL-208 for sale and thought that perhaps it would be good to own one IF it were a single cab that sounded a bit bigger and heftier than 1 wiz M-line 12 and wasn't too heavy for those occasional "1X12 isn't really cutting the room" gigs and then I could sell 1 of my m-lines. It also wouldn't hurt to be able to use this bigger single cab in tandem w/ the remaining wizzy m-line if a "uber" rig was ever needed. Hence the different ohmage (4ohm + 8ohm together?) follow up question.

Is the VL-208 THAT single cab or perhaps the answer is the EA Neo 210?
Is the 210 a 4 ohm cab so I could combine it easily w an M-line powered by my Focus? Is it lighter than the VL-208?

I have to confess I've historically never been in love w/ the sound of 210 or 410 cabs that I've used as backline or owned (a vintage SWR 2x10 c.1989). They've always sounded somewhat brittle w/ artificial low end to my ears. That said, I did like the sound of the 410 Bergantino I used the other nite and having a love for the amazing EA cabs, I wouldn't be surprised at all if my mind were changed w/ their 10's.

Thanks for your opinions guys, Brian Glassman
 

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