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Woman Profiled on 9/11
- Thread starter Dr. Cheese
- Start date
Hence the need to stop and think about the possible validity or non-validity of a story in the media as consequential as millions of Muslims cheering the events of 9/11, or hatred of the West being preached in Mosques. When you say millions of people around the world, I'm willing to bet a lot of people don't stop and think that even "millions of Muslims" are a small minority considering there's over one billion Muslims worldwide.
I guess. I don't know. ARGH! Can't we all just get along? :scowl:
To the People keep stating this. What are the physical characteristics and differences between an Indian Hindu, Christian or Buddhist and a Pakistani or Indian Muslim?
Not much.
...but that ain't the question. Folks keep referring to them as "middle eastern".
What are the physical characteristics and differences between an Indian and someone of middle eastern descent? Quite a lot.
It depends on what you mean by Middle Eastern and which South Asian you are talking about. Many South Asian people are very fair. A good example would be Nikki Halley, the governor of South Carolina, she is of South Asian ancestry, but she is quite fair, and I don't think most people would realize that she is not a WASP until they were told. Bobby Jindal, the governor of Louisiana, is quite dark, and looks more stereotypically Indian.
Similarly, many Syrians, Turks, and Lebanese, are very fair, and red or blonde hair is common among them. People from Upper Egypt are often quite dark and are clearly partially "black African" ancestry. The same is true for many Saudis, and other Arabs from the Gulf region. Many Gulf Arabs are also dark skinned and straight haired like peoplefrom South Asia.
Looking as someone will not be much help. Does anyone remember the Brazilian man who was shot to death by London police just a day after the terrible subway bombing there?
Millions of anything does not constitute an insignificant
number by any measure -- but that's how you portrayed it.
There are over 1.1 billion Catholics in the world. How many
have committed lethal violence for the IRA? ...hundreds?
This is what I'm talking about with your relativism. The evil
promoted by tens of millions -- perhaps hundreds of millions --
of Muslims is somehow equivalent to the evil perpetrated
by a hundred Catholics. This is utter nonsense.
Rigorous studies estimate that 65% of Muslims support
strict Sharia law. Sharia law is incompatible with all forms
of western freedom and degrades all non-Muslims to second
class status.
Terror and jihad are the methods by which sharia is spread.
It is sharia that defines the substance of Islam.
Asking Muslims to put down Sharia is a non-starter. Even in societies that do not practice Sharia, it is respected as part of their faith. In societies that are mainly Muslim, Islamic law will be part or a foundation of the legal system.
I am curious, what do you actually know about Sharia law other than stories of amputations? I am no Qadi, but I know that Sharia goes well beyond chopping off someone's hand or stoning someone, and that traditional Islam has four major schools of religious law.
Honestly, I have lived in the Muslim world, and there were some things I did not care for, but Muslims are not fanatical or bloodthirsty. Most love their religion, and want others to adopt it, but that is common in any evangelical or prostelytizing faith. That said, most Muslims were not pushy or disrespectful of the fact I was (am) a Christian.
They tend to be sensitive because they feel their religion is attacked and disrespected in the West. That said, I do believe that Muslims who chose to move to the West should expect to make some adjustments. If I cannot ask the Muslim World to change for me when I spend time there, I don't think they should not expect to have things like Muslim style sex segregation in public accomodations in the West. That, however, is a minor issue because most Muslims understand that London or New York is not Islamabad or Mogadishu.
That's because you were still a follower of the same God as theirs'. It's possible they wouldn't be as accepting of you if you followed another religion (besides Judaism).
It is always funny when Christians assume that Muslims all sick to the letter of their faith like robots. It's kind of like expecting every Christian to never miss communion or have premarital sex.
I don't see where I'm making assumptions at all. You're a believer in the Book - the same as they are. The only difference is they believe Muhammad was the last prophet and not Jesus. Of course they would be accepting of you and have little issue. Heck, they've been accepting of Christians for hundreds of years and would do no more than tax them more than other Muslims. This extremist/conservative view (while obviously not one that is adopted by the majority of Muslims) is a relatively recent thing. With that in mind, I'm curious if you would of had the same experience had you been a member of another religion.
Also, I'm not Christian - just someone who reads a lot of history.
As I said before, Muslims are just people. Some are strictly by the book, others are not particularly religious, some just find ways to accept stuff that is not exactly in line with what the Koran says. In places like Indonesia, Malaysia, India, Nigeria, other places, Muslims deal with people who are not part of the Abrahamic tradition daily. Incidents make the news, the millions of people who are just living do not make the news.
No, there'd be no arguing it then and at least we could face the issue head on. Or was that a threat/insult suggesting that if they pulled out all the stops they would finally accomplish their printed goals of global conquest?
There's no argument as to whether or not there are decent Muslims or not, but rather the fact that Islam itself demands total conquest, even if many of it's followers choose not to follow.
Actually it is the religion that demands it, and the terrorists who are following the command to emulate the founder of Islam when their numbers are strong enough to do so.
No I didn't, you're just making it up. Here's what you said:
...and I responded pointing out that "millions" of Muslims would still be a minority within the religion. You're changing the story because you don't like the ending.
I never compared the two. You're fighting a straw man.
Rigorous studies estimate that 95% of all unsourced statistics are made up.
Yeah no kidding! What the hell?
Maybe there are some morons out there who DO interpret their religion like that but by and large this is ridiculous. Muslims are NOT mindless robots who sit there feverishly wringing their hands waiting for the time when they get to conquest the earth... most are worried about paying bills, putting food on the table, just like you and me. geez
davec
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- May 4, 2006
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I'd say the opposite. It was smart of her.
In this day and age, a cellphone is the best protection you have against abusive authority.
I would suggest that there are two different issues here and a big straw man on this thread:
1) No one here, at least that I've read is suggesting that a majority of Muslims or terrorists, extremist, or even deeply devoted religiously. Most of us especially in the US have been around many Muslims who are as devoted as Easter, Christmas Only catholics. My next door neighbors fit in that category. I think we all agree that the extremist (to the point of strapping a bomb belt on) element in Islam is tiny.
2) What Islam teaches at the mosque and how most Muslims live (just like most Christians) are two different things. Most of us have our objections to the teachings not the people, many of whom don't adhere to them strictly.
The unique problem with Islam is two fold:
1) Islam does not believe in separation of Church and State. Dr. Cheese was right, giving up Sharia for the institutions of Islam is a non starter. This points to the second problem
2) Islam doesn't posses the institutions to support it's liberalizing forces. While a Christian can go to Gaychristian.org and read about churches that are comfortable with gay lifestyle, a Muslim will find no such mosque. Even in the US, there is not one Mosque that doesn't practice the segregation and subjugation of women in the service.
In other words while their are millions of moderate Muslims there are very few moderate Muslim religious institutions. Even Qwardi the so-called leading Muslim cleric in Europe still teaches capital punishment for homosexuality. One can still go to the largest mosque in the UK and buy virulent anti-Semitic literature in it's bookstore. Until the moderate Muslims have institutions within the religion, it's hard to imagine real change.
1) No one here, at least that I've read is suggesting that a majority of Muslims or terrorists, extremist, or even deeply devoted religiously. Most of us especially in the US have been around many Muslims who are as devoted as Easter, Christmas Only catholics. My next door neighbors fit in that category. I think we all agree that the extremist (to the point of strapping a bomb belt on) element in Islam is tiny.
2) What Islam teaches at the mosque and how most Muslims live (just like most Christians) are two different things. Most of us have our objections to the teachings not the people, many of whom don't adhere to them strictly.
The unique problem with Islam is two fold:
1) Islam does not believe in separation of Church and State. Dr. Cheese was right, giving up Sharia for the institutions of Islam is a non starter. This points to the second problem
2) Islam doesn't posses the institutions to support it's liberalizing forces. While a Christian can go to Gaychristian.org and read about churches that are comfortable with gay lifestyle, a Muslim will find no such mosque. Even in the US, there is not one Mosque that doesn't practice the segregation and subjugation of women in the service.
In other words while their are millions of moderate Muslims there are very few moderate Muslim religious institutions. Even Qwardi the so-called leading Muslim cleric in Europe still teaches capital punishment for homosexuality. One can still go to the largest mosque in the UK and buy virulent anti-Semitic literature in it's bookstore. Until the moderate Muslims have institutions within the religion, it's hard to imagine real change.
Yes.
No.
What most Islamic mosques teach is just how most Muslims live.
Extremist mosques are just as uncommon as extremist Muslims.
The unique problem with Islam is two fold:
Islam doesn't believe anything.
SOME interpret Islam as pushing aside a separation of church and state, others - not so much. See Turkey for example.
...and there are LOTS of Christians (even non-Fundamentalists) who have serious issues with separation of church and state (see: school prayer, etc.).
...and separation of church and state is radically NEW idea in Christianity. Throughout the great majority of the existence of Christianity church-state separation was a non-starter.
Except there are.
ADAMS
Never mind the numerous US based progressive Muslim organizations.
