Won the Wal pickup on ebay!!!

[pushifier]

Well to my knowledge a Wal element has 8 poles with a 8 coils, so it's a octacoil. Each string has adjustable 4 poles/coils (2 pickups per string).

And that Tool sound is done by a clean chancel and a wet chancel with a continues RAT pedal on it. So you get that crunch in the high overtones of the bass. (and put both filter knobs to 8-9)

 

[musicmansf]

Add one more in line for a Wal-inspired MM pickup. As much as I love my ray, something has to change...

 

[musicmansf]

Well to my knowledge a Wal element has 8 poles with a 8 coils, so it's a octacoil. Each string has adjustable 4 poles/coils (2 pickups per string).

And that Tool sound is done by a clean chancel and a wet chancel with a continues RAT pedal on it. So you get that crunch in the high overtones of the bass. (and put both filter knobs to 8-9)

I thought the RAT was his buzz saw distortion and the GK was running the 12's on the dirty channel? Man I can't wait for my Boogie 2x12 to get here!

 

[SGD Lutherie]

Well to my knowledge a Wal element has 8 poles with a 8 coils, so it's a octacoil. Each string has adjustable 4 poles/coils (2 pickups per string).

That's right, but each row of 4 coils are wired in series, so you can think of it as a standard humbucker, but with each humbucker coil made from 4 separate coils (or 5 for the 5 string). The smaller separate coils creates a cleaner tone, even though it's a pretty hot pickup, which gives it that thick tone, while still retaining a crisp top end.

And that Tool sound is done by a clean chancel and a wet chancel with a continues RAT pedal on it. So you get that crunch in the high overtones of the bass. (and put both filter knobs to 8-9)

Right... He splits his signal three ways, direct from the Wal's XLR to a Demeter preamp to the board, then the 1/4" jack runs through a pedal board to a splitter, one half goes through the RAT and a Boss EQ to a G-K 2001RB/4x12, and the other to a 2001RB and 8X10.

 

[Oreomeister365]

Rather, he doesn't use the wals xlr, but he uses the demeter preamps xlr. It makes me wonder what part of his chain goes into the demeter though, since he only has 1 cable coming from his bass. Is it truly a clean channel or perhaps his "clean" channel as in, the channel all his main effects are in.

 

[Matt Golgotha]

I'm aware Wal did a midi bass but I can't find much info on the electrics - would this pickup be suitable for the purpose? I currently have an internal Roland GK-kit that I'd like to find a use for.

 

[WarriorJoe7]

wals midi bass is similiar to the peavey midibase and cyberbass. No regular pickup will do the wal midi thing. It would have to be entirely developed seperately and it would be very expensive.

 

[Matt Golgotha]

wals midi bass is similiar to the peavey midibase and cyberbass. No regular pickup will do the wal midi thing. It would have to be entirely developed seperately and it would be very expensive.

That's fair enough I couldn't find much info on them to be sure. Still could I potentially use the separate feeds of the Wal pickup and mate them up to the electrics from the roland (with the pickup was installed close to the bridge) as both are divided magnetic pickups, or would would there be too much magnetic cross talk (i.e. picking up sound from the adjacent string)?

 

[fivestringdan]

The Wal midi was triggered by the frets, not the magnetic pickups.

 

[SGD Lutherie]

Rather, he doesn't use the wals xlr, but he uses the demeter preamps xlr. It makes me wonder what part of his chain goes into the demeter though, since he only has 1 cable coming from his bass. Is it truly a clean channel or perhaps his "clean" channel as in, the channel all his main effects are in.

Here's the chart from the interview in July 2007 Bass Player. They show the Wal's XLR going to the Demeter preamp, and the Wal's 1/4" jack going to the pedal board. From the pedal board the signal is split (post effects, and he has a lot of them) to the RAT/EQ/GK rig with 4X12, and the other side is the clean amp send to the other GK with 8X10.

One thing I want to point out is that unlike a real Wal pickup, I'm going to allow for different combinations of coils, so you can switch between the humbucking and say a split configuration, for example.

That's the plan anyway.

 

[musicmansf]

One thing I want to point out is that unlike a real Wal pickup, I'm going to allow for different combinations of coils, so you can switch between the humbucking and say a split configuration, for example.

That's the plan anyway.

I CANNOT wait to play one of these!!! Gonna be funny when all of us get one and take it to the shop and they wonder "***" as they stare at this massive pickup lol, keep up the good work SGD!

 

[skiscem]

i know its a litte premature to ask but any idea of how much the MM4 type pickup its going to cost.

 

[Jarno]

That's right, but each row of 4 coils are wired in series, so you can think of it as a standard humbucker, but with each humbucker coil made from 4 separate coils (or 5 for the 5 string). The smaller separate coils creates a cleaner tone, even though it's a pretty hot pickup, which gives it that thick tone, while still retaining a crisp top end.

So, unlike Alembic pickups these Wals do the peak in response somewhere low in the spectrum?
The choice for these small coils seems primarily for manufacturing reasons? Sort of a modular pickup, you only need different PCB's and outer housings for 4,5 and 6 string pickups.
Being able to use different coil configurations seems a great idea, then you are really making the most of the small coils. You could also actively mix the two coils belonging to one string, and very accurately null the noise.

Best regards,

Jarno.

 

[Oreomeister365]

Here's the chart from the interview in July 2007 Bass Player. They show the Wal's XLR going to the Demeter preamp, and the Wal's 1/4" jack going to the pedal board. From the pedal board the signal is split (post effects, and he has a lot of them) to the RAT/EQ/GK rig with 4X12, and the other side is the clean amp send to the other GK with 8X10.

One thing I want to point out is that unlike a real Wal pickup, I'm going to allow for different combinations of coils, so you can switch between the humbucking and say a split configuration, for example.

That's the plan anyway.

And trust me, bass player got it quite wrong. There is only a single 1/4 inch jack coming from his bass in concert. They also got a handful of his effects wrong.

But, not that important. Maybe he does use the basses xlr for recording though.

 

[SGD Lutherie]

So, unlike Alembic pickups these Wals do the
peak in response somewhere low in the spectrum?

Alembics were low impedance for a long time... maybe 2K. The newer Alembic pickups are about 8K.

The Wal pickup is about 20K with everything in series.

The choice for these small coils seems primarily for manufacturing reasons? Sort of a modular pickup, you only need different PCB's and outer housings for 4,5 and 6 string pickups.

I believe it was for tonal reasons. Smaller coils are clearer sounding. This is also how the original bartolini Hi-A pickups were.

It's more work winding many small coils than two larger ones, and there were no 5 and 6 string basses when they first developed those pickups, but they do lend themselves to modular construction.

Being able to use different coil configurations seems a great idea, then you are really making the most of the small coils. You could also actively mix the two coils belonging to one string, and very accurately null the noise.

If you have the same number of turns on each coil, that's good enough for hum cancelation. In fact you can offset the two coils by quite a margin and the pickup will still be quiet.

But there is a lot of room for doing all kinds of things, like running each coil set to it's own buffer and things like that.

Combinations of coils will only be hum canceling from one row to another, since they are opposite polarity.

 

[SGD Lutherie]

And trust me, bass player got it quite wrong. There is only a single 1/4 inch jack coming from his bass in concert. They also got a handful of his effects wrong.

But, not that important. Maybe he does use the basses xlr for recording though.

Well they did quote him as saying the XLR out saved him when one of his amps went out. They also say the XLR out goes straight to the PA, which has nothing to do with recording. They also said he records with the amps.

Maybe he doesn't always use the whole setup.

 

[SGD Lutherie]

i know its a litte premature to ask but any idea of how much the MM4 type pickup its going to cost.

I'm not sure yet. I'm figuring in the $150-200 range.

 

[Jarno]

That's interesting, I always thought the current Alembic pickups are still low impedance, apparently not. Maybe it's just the series electronics which is still low impedance?

I have a really old set of strat pickups by Alembic, and these read 6.8k DC resistance. Apparently they used low-impedance for a certain period, I wonder what the drawback of going low impedance is, maybe more noise because of higher gain in preamp, or higher current draw.

Regarding the small coils in Wal pickups, I still think they are easier to outsource, any company which does winding can make those small coils while requiring special tooling (ie. capital expenditure) for winding ordinary shaped guitar and bass bobbins.
But if Wal used to wind their own pickups, then that's not a valid point.
I do wonder though, 20k DC resistance, that's probably quite a bit of inductance there?

Best regards,

Jarno.

 

[john_g]

I'm not sure yet. I'm figuring in the $150-200 range.

Ok, now, tell me how to install them in my Jazz

 

[SGD Lutherie]

That's interesting, I always thought the current Alembic pickups are still low impedance, apparently not. Maybe it's just the series electronics which is still low impedance?

I have a really old set of strat pickups by Alembic, and these read 6.8k DC resistance. Apparently they used low-impedance for a certain period, I wonder what the drawback of going low impedance is, maybe more noise because of higher gain in preamp, or higher current draw.

Yeah I was surprised by this also. I've examined A Jazz set, an old humbucker sized pickup and a set of AXYs. The Jazz pickups are about 7.1K, and the others are around 8k. I think the change was due to the stacked coils needing more wire wound to get the fuller tone. I've never examined a Series I pickup, but they are supposed to be about 1400 turns of 40AWG wire. (I like Alembic stuff... but $1,100.00 for a set of Activators???)

Regarding the small coils in Wal pickups, I still think they are easier to outsource, any company which does winding can make those small coils while requiring special tooling (ie. capital expenditure) for winding ordinary shaped guitar and bass bobbins.
But if Wal used to wind their own pickups, then that's not a valid point.
I do wonder though, 20k DC resistance, that's probably quite a bit of inductance there?

I think they wound them in house. They already had to have all the plastic parts molded, and that's expensive. Winding the coils is the easy part. They are very nicely designed and made I might add.

The small coils wound allow more wire to be wound while helping to keep the inductance and capacitance down.