Wood & Tronics Club

[uncle]

Wow Bram! These basses looks amazing! I feel my GAS growing again
I personally like the one with the single bridge because the logo looks better but it depends on the sound you're looking for which bridge to use. I have a two piece bridge on my Chronos.
However the difference in "looks" of these two basses are "peanuts"..

Dirk

 

[J.Wolf]

I dig those alot.. And I think the 1 piece bridge looks better with that inlay..
I think the poplar takes stain pretty well though, mine has some light stain which looks great. Certainly the pics of stained poplar topped W&T's look pretty sweet IMO.

 

[Brams77]

I dig those alot.. And I think the 1 piece bridge looks better with that inlay..
I think the poplar takes stain pretty well though, mine has some light stain which looks great. Certainly the pics of stained poplar topped W&T's look pretty sweet IMO.

Yeah I know those examples all too well, but it was just the typical green thing I was displaying in the mockups, that type of green doesnt go well with the top-wood Enrico showed somehow, it needs a kind of wood that has some more redish things going on in the grain. Also I am affraid I will get bored with the color eventually... But it was a nice idea none the less.
The pieces of wood Enrico showes me where very even of color. But had some serious figures going on.

 

[J.Wolf]

I've thought about doing another figured poplar top, with a light caramel burst....yum

 

[Brams77]

I dig those alot.. And I think the 1 piece bridge looks better with that inlay..
I think the poplar takes stain pretty well though, mine has some light stain which looks great. Certainly the pics of stained poplar topped W&T's look pretty sweet IMO.

Ah I didn't know there was a light stain going on there, but that actually can do something for the figuring ofcourse... Maybe it possible to get just a hint of green in there like on the mockup, the green came in there from the picture which im sure isnt in the wood for real. I could look if something could be done whith that, you made my day with that remark Jake thanks man!
And yes the one piece bridge does do something but I was too fixated on the wide 2 piece version of the ETS bridge (I feel that is a real W&T thing those 2 piece bridges). But now looking to the same picture 2 hours later I see the one priece bridge works great also.

 

[Brams77]

Oh and something else, Enrico told me they had a new novelty!
(I feel a new novelty youtube clip comming on here
It seems they just finnished a bass that had a 3 piece ash neck and he told me they had a new break through somehow.
He said the result was mindblowing..... if you where in search of the ultimate Janek/Matthew Garrison sound that is... So I said 2 piece ash and 1 piece maple was out the door, I want 3 piece ash
It's great they still experiment and find new ways to improve the allready ridiculous high level that they build obviously.

 

[J.Wolf]

thats pretty exciting, those boys are always coming up with something I wonder how the weight/balance is on those necks. Mine is ash/maple/ash with satinwood stringers on the outside, and it is fantastic. I would think losing the middle maple piece would darken up the tone a bit. Just speculatin'.

I agree those 2 piece bridges are the bomb, I hemmed and hawwed about it, and went with the 1 piece for the streamlined look, but I really like the 2 piece.

 

[emjazz]

Forgive me, but why are people always asking builders to build something that sounds or plays like another builder's work? I'm sure they appreciate the business, but I want to know what a W&T bass sounds like (in general), not a W&T bass that was built to sound like something else. What makes W&T basses sound or play differently from any other bass? I'm not trying to be difficult, I really want to know.

 

[J.Wolf]

I hear you, there is something to that.. I see alot of Fodera "style" basses, (or CT style, etc..). In the end, I don't really care how authentic they are to the thing they're modeled after, I'm looking for the bass that plays, sounds, and looks right for me. The only thing that connects the dots between W&T and Fodera strictly speaking would be the singlecut and construction method, if he's paying tribute to MG, RB, or JG, it doesn't take anything away from whatever else he does IMO.

"What makes W&T basses sound or play differently from any other bass?" I'm not sure anyone could answer your question as effectively as you just getting to play a W&T and decide if you dig it or not. The same would go for any bass really, right?

 

[J.Wolf]

I want to know what a W&T bass sounds like

I guess the bassculture pickups are about the only constant in this equation, and maybe the East U retro or SP2. Although you could order one with whatever woods, pickups and pre you like I believe. I suppose if a W&T felt fantastic in your hands, but tonally didn't suit you, you would be in a good position to order one spec'd to your liking..

 

[emjazz]

I hear you, there is something to that.. I see alot of Fodera "style" basses, (or CT style, etc..). In the end, I don't really care how authentic they are to the thing they're modeled after, I'm looking for the bass that plays, sounds, and looks right for me. The only thing that connects the dots between W&T and Fodera strictly speaking would be the singlecut and construction method, if he's paying tribute to MG, RB, or JG, it doesn't take anything away from whatever else he does IMO.

"What makes W&T basses sound or play differently from any other bass?" I'm not sure anyone could answer your question as effectively as you just getting to play a W&T and decide if you dig it or not. The same would go for any bass really, right?

I guess I get rubbed the wrong way when folks start saying "I dropped my Fodera for this bass!", or they talk about getting Matt's or Janek's tone on this W&T bass.....What your customers say you can't control, but I think it's important for a builder to try and not associate with another brand in any way. I'm not saying this company is, I'm just saying that the comments about these basses always come back to someone comparing them to Fodera or saying they're having W&T build them a bass to get Matt's or Janek's sound.

I like what you said about getting your sound Jake. That should be the goal for anyone that's serious about playing. It's like back in the day when I'd go to a guitar show and every knuckle head is playing Jaco licks to get attention. If I want to hear Jaco I'll go to the source. Jaco played Jaco better than anyone.....

 

[emjazz]

I guess the bassculture pickups are about the only constant in this equation, and maybe the East U retro or SP2. Although you could order one with whatever woods, pickups and pre you like I believe. I suppose if a W&T felt fantastic in your hands, but tonally didn't suit you, you would be in a good position to order one spec'd to your liking..

We'll hook up eventually man and I'll get to check yours out....by that time you may have two!

 

[emjazz]

...and Brahms, I want to point out that I'm not jumping on you for something you said...it's just that what you mentioned I've seen a lot when folks are talking about W&T.

 

[J.Wolf]

I guess I get rubbed the wrong way when folks start saying "I dropped my Fodera for this bass!", or they talk about getting Matt's or Janek's tone on this W&T bass.....What your customers say you can't control, but I think it's important for a builder to try and not associate with another brand in any way. I'm not saying this company is, I'm just saying that the comments about these basses always come back to someone comparing them to Fodera or saying they're having W&T build them a bass to get Matt's or Janek's sound.

I agree, and I think the validity of these basses standing on their own two feet could potentially be overshadowed by comparing them to another builder. The fact that W&T can successfully cop some of these other well known basses' tonal attributes is a compliment to their ability as builders/designers. In general, (and in my case), the real value and integrity with these basses, was me being able to approach Enrico, saying generally what I was after, and after showing him vids and recordings of my playing, he kinda ran with it just nailed it. Few builders I've worked with have that ability to know how to "build to the customer" so well.

 

[emjazz]

In general, (and in my case), the real value and integrity with these basses, was me being able to approach Enrico, saying generally what I was after, and after showing him vids and recordings of my playing, he kinda ran with it just nailed it. Few builders I've worked with have that ability to know how to "build to the customer" so well.

You can't put a price on that. That's the best response you could write.

 

[Brams77]

Ok Emjazz, I see your point very clearly and sure it's easy to see it that way.
What you need to understand is that Fodera and the way they are built is in some ways a bit similar to how Wood & Tronics builds also I see some resemblence to Ken Smith e.g. Altho they (W&T) use very different neck types and wood types not seen on other basses of other brands. So they are not the same and don't sound the exactly the same, there are differences, but the idea, and where I see Fodera was and is very good at is making basses that are very musical, atleast to me the Matt Garrison type of basses.
Enrico happens to be a good friend of Matt and also Enrico spend type in New York where he visited the Fodera shop very frequently from what I get. Also he even sold Fodera basses in Italy. So there is a connection not so much that he wanted to make copies of Fodera's or something but in some ways share the same musical view as how to build the ultimate bass guitar, so W&T basses are his (Enrico's) view on the ultimate bass guitar basically, and thats very very different from any other manufacturer that I know.
Most of which are making super jazzes by the way.
Now I have owned and still own Fodera basses, but to me W&T brings somethings to the market Fodera does not bring.
They feel very different and.. and as what I've seen the quality sound wise is a little better from instrument to insrument, and then ofcourse I have more freedom as a customer for custom features I wouldn't have at any other manufacturer, also I have more feedback from a great bass player (no less) on how certain features would effect the final product, this is being done with great great care, that's also unheard of. All that combined will get me the best most musical and great playing instrument for a good price.
So I don't want to say it's the cheaper Fodera either, it's just another instrument built differently but shares a bit of the same sound idea that people like Matt Garrison, Janek Gwizdala love as do I and Enrico. And that said Enrico is a really really good bass player that also plays more towards chordal things and high c solo's like the bassists I named earlier, so him being at the position to direct things when a bass guitars is build, you can imagine he exactly gets what I want and knows how that bass needs to be built to achieve that "sound" goal.

I'm sure reading this all back I could sum this up a little more compact, but it is what I feel.
That said your completely right I shouldnt compare it so much to Fodera's, so I will take note and not do that anymore

 

[Wood&Tronics]

Hi guys,
I am very glad to see this discussion taking off. Thanks Emjazz for sending out food for thought, and thanks Jake for your thoughtful elaboration upon Emjazz's valid point.
I would add up that it is of course a honour for us to be somehow related to Fodera, first of all, and I will extend this thought a bit. Being compared to Fodera is not like being compared to Ken Smith or, I don't know, Modulus, for instance, because there's one thing that sets Fodera's work apart: Vinny and Joey never had the ego to make a strong, original statement, to create a niche. We all know Ken Smith, Modulus, Zon, Carl Thompson, Status, Alembic, Sadowsky, or even Warwick for this matter: all these builders set out from their beginning to make a niche for themselves, a niche where they can be totally recognizable for their extremely specific construction and sound. This is admirable on one side, but not valuable in absolute terms: in doing so, these builders created extreme originality yet they limited themeslves to certain schemes that they don't want to get out from, and if you will call them to ask for variations on those schemes be ready to receive a "no, we don't do that".
Of course, Fodera don't offer a tremendous range of options either, but they set out to offer solid, old school (Fender) fundamentals and expand them into the realm of Through-neck construction; they reached the top of the game because the majority of bassists refer to the Fender concept, and Fodera offers, in a nutshell, expanded versions of Fenders in accordance with the desires of their customers. Of course this happen to the extent that you don't see a direct Fodera-Fender link - who would say that an Imperial is linked to the Fender Jazz? - but the single fact that they use strictly J-style single and dual coil pickups, and 95% of the times they place them in Fender's 60s and 70s position keeps them rooted in the Fender tradition, and guys, pickups placement is the most sensible element in construction, tone-wise, believe me. Remember that using Walnut for the body doesn't have a precise sense in terms of tone; YES, it will produce a different tone than Ash or Alder, but to a relatively limited extend: what the body wood decides most is in terms of PERFORMANCE, i.e. thin or fat attack, dynamics, responsiveness (quick for Walnut, kind of "laid back" for Alder, for example) etc., but it will be the type of pickup (even dual coil, if wired similar to two paired J-style singles) and its placement to dictate the voice, the colour, the character, ultimately the TONE of a bass. Anybody who will tell you a different thing will simply not be enough into differences between pickups and betwen different pickups placement.

I hope I made a point about our "relatability" to Fodera.
Then come aesthetics, and I believe we take away from Fodera quite a bit: the Chronos looks totally different than an Imperial to my eyes...

 

[Wood&Tronics]

Bram, great interpretation of our philosophy, indeed.
Ii have just seen your post, which came right before mine...

 

[emjazz]

Thank you both for your replies. I appreciate the time you took to answer.

What I see is a builder who is dedicated to building the best bass for the individual player, and someone who has the experience as a player themself to understand a player's desires. Bravo! All the best....such beautiful looking instruments!

 

[Wood&Tronics]

Glad to have provided you a satisfying answer Emjazz.

In other words, the pickups act like filters that can either be very neutral and let the bass' tone nuances get through without interfering, or add up a lot of their own to the tone of the bass, up to the point where they become the main reason for a certain tone character.
As far as we are concerned, our dual coils are extremely transparent and have with the highest degree of dynamic sensibility. The points of placement on the body do the rest of the work, which is a huge percentage.

Now, of course we are still missing a paramount piece of the equation, i.e. neck woods, an incredibly overlooked subject, and there's a reason for that: neck woods are more influential than body woods in the creation of tone, thus luthiers don't want to step into that ground, don't want people to start asking them about different neck woods combinations because that takes a deal of experience, and to build up that experience you must have tried different cobinations, and how many luthiers out there took the time and the pain to glue up neck woods of the most different types just of the sake of research? Then, more results of research yeld more possibilities, hence more options yet potential confusion in the customer's mind, unless you then dedicate yourself to explaining and illustrating to each and every customer, one by one, with no concern for taking from your working and free time...
Perhaps most part of our endeavour of bringing something new out to bassists is actually offering new tonal possibilities by offering different neck wood combinations, although we are still researching and fine-tuning on the matter, but we are very committed to walk this ground and get bassists involved into the subject, to expand their possibilities for choice, hence for their tonal identity and originality.