Woofy/muddy Low strings

[alex1fly]

Sometimes E and B strings sound woofy, hollow, muddy, and kind of bloated compared to their A D and G counterparts. Like completely different timbre. Other times, the E and B strings share the same timbre as the A D and G strings and it’s seamless going from the low strings to the high. Has anybody else experienced this? What gives? Is it the gauge, the instrument, the age/make of string set, some other piece of the puzzle?

I know on downtuned guitar, larger string sets can have a similar quality. There it’s a function of the low string gauge being too big to sound tight and articulate like the rest of the set. So you compensate with tighter pickups, EQ, or going with lighter strings and a lighter touch.

I’ve played a bunch of 5 string basses in my day and sometimes the low E and B sound like a cohesive part of the string set, but sometimes they sound like they’re a completely different instrument. Just wondering why that might be.

 

[pepj]

Its not unknown to get a duff string but pretty rare, IME.
Far bigger influence is the bass set up itself and the way the string is wound on.
Its not rocket science stuff, but reasonable care to wind them on without overlaps and twists etc should be the norm.

FWIW, I use rounds on 5 strings and i reclean strings until they gunk out and dont clean up anymore...5 times and counting...and I never have dead notes or wooly B or E strings or any others, tbh.

 

[iiipopes]

By definition, yes, the thicker the string, the less it will vibrate in overtones to match the tonality of the rest of the set. This can be exacerbated by pickup placement, especially if the pickup is too close to the neck. I don't even like the venerable Precision pickup anymore for this reason. It didn't matter way back when amplifiers had low power, paper cones, and flat wound strings, but with high power, full range cabinets, and round wounds, I don't do Precision pickups anymore for this reason: to my ears, the E string thumps and the G string twangs. It is also why many sets, for example the Fender 9050L set, 45-60-80-100, has an E-string that is thinner than the math might otherwise indicate, so it will vibrate in its overtones more freely and better match the rest of the set. The double bass company Pirastro also does this for their strings: lighten up the E string to tonally match the rest. So it takes enlightened manufacturers to adjust the formulas of their lower strings to match. @Jon Moody of GHS is great at this, and the sets on which he has had direct input, for example, the Balanced Nickels, are extremely well balanced tonally as well as feel. I have also had good luck keeping tonal consistency with D'Addario XL170BT plus a 130 for my party band gig bass, where I need that signature drop in the lower mids to keep the mix clean. In my decades of playing, my hand perspiration tends to kill strings, and in decades past when I had a Friday-Saturday double gig, I always had an extra E string to change out for Saturday as I would kill it on the Friday gig. Another thing to do is from the opposite direction: on a new set of strings, roll off the tone knob a little bit to tame the new G string to make everything consistent tonally that way.

 

[alex1fly]

Its not unknown to get a duff string but pretty rare, IME.
Far bigger influence is the bass set up itself and the way the string is wound on.
Its not rocket science stuff, but reasonable care to wind them on without overlaps and twists etc should be the norm.

FWIW, I use rounds on 5 strings and i reclean strings until they gunk out and dont clean up anymore...5 times and counting...and I never have dead notes or wooly B or E strings or any others, tbh.

How do you clean your strings?

 

[alex1fly]

By definition, yes, the thicker the string, the less it will vibrate in overtones to match the tonality of the rest of the set. This can be exacerbated by pickup placement, especially if the pickup is too close to the neck. I don't even like the venerable Precision pickup anymore for this reason. It didn't matter way back when amplifiers had low power, paper cones, and flat wound strings, but with high power, full range cabinets, and round wounds, I don't do Precision pickups anymore for this reason: to my ears, the E string thumps and the G string twangs. It is also why many sets, for example the Fender 9050L set, 45-60-80-100, has an E-string that is thinner than the math might otherwise indicate, so it will vibrate in its overtones more freely and better match the rest of the set. The double bass company Pirastro also does this for their strings: lighten up the E string to tonally match the rest. So it takes enlightened manufacturers to adjust the formulas of their lower strings to match. @Jon Moody of GHS is great at this, and the sets on which he has had direct input, for example, the Balanced Nickels, are extremely well balanced tonally as well as feel. I have also had good luck keeping tonal consistency with D'Addario XL170BT plus a 130 for my party band gig bass, where I need that signature drop in the lower mids to keep the mix clean. In my decades of playing, my hand perspiration tends to kill strings, and in decades past when I had a Friday-Saturday double gig, I always had an extra E string to change out for Saturday as I would kill it on the Friday gig. Another thing to do is from the opposite direction: on a new set of strings, roll off the tone knob a little bit to tame the new G string to make everything consistent tonally that way.

It's interesting because I have three P basses and only one of them woofs out on the low E string. On the same bass I put on BEAD and only the low B was woofy.

 

[micguy]

I play 5'ers, so I have had this issue. Strings with tapered windings do help match things up better (Kaliums are great at this), and sometimes it's best to get a different series of string for your B string. On a couple of basses, I use Boomers. The 5 string sets are not the gauges I like, so I use a 4 string light gauge set, and....I use a Bassics 130 for the B - it's from a "brighter" set, and that means it matches the rest of the Boomer set better than the Boomer version 130 gauge string. It doesn't have red silk on it, but it sounds better.

 

[michael_t]

I play 5'ers, so I have had this issue. Strings with tapered windings do help match things up better (Kaliums are great at this), and sometimes it's best to get a different series of string for your B string. On a couple of basses, I use Boomers. The 5 string sets are not the gauges I like, so I use a 4 string light gauge set, and....I use a Bassics 130 for the B - it's from a "brighter" set, and that means it matches the rest of the Boomer set better than the Boomer version 130 gauge string. It doesn't have red silk on it, but it sounds better.

When I got my one and only 5-string bass four and a half years ago, the first thing I noticed was the low B's from factory 5-string sets always sounded different from the rest. That's when I started experimenting with the idea of mix-and-matching in order to achieve better tonal balance.

I've been using the light set of GHS Pressurewound (40-96) with GHS Progressive 130B on my Yamaha. Alloy 52 roundwound B with an exposed core matched up with Alloy 52 rollerwound E-G = good tonal balance with a low B with better clarity, definition and even sustain.

EDIT: The old version of GHS Progressives was discontinued at the end of 2019. And thanks to the pandemic, the new version is yet to be released (who knows when?). Luckily, I managed to stock up on the 130B to last me till 2025.

 

[pepj]

How do you clean your strings?

As with everyone, I was told to boil them..but that didnt really make much sense to me so I wanted a metal cleaner with no residual. So I started with ehthanol derivative.
I soak in a biscuit box and coil the strings to fit.
I put enough ethanol in to cover all strings and leave to soak for 48hrs ideally.
Drip dry or evaporate and straight on the bass thereafter.
Buy this type of product from local hardware store.
Dad used to use it to clean paint brushes.

 

[alex1fly]

I play 5'ers, so I have had this issue. Strings with tapered windings do help match things up better (Kaliums are great at this), and sometimes it's best to get a different series of string for your B string. On a couple of basses, I use Boomers. The 5 string sets are not the gauges I like, so I use a 4 string light gauge set, and....I use a Bassics 130 for the B - it's from a "brighter" set, and that means it matches the rest of the Boomer set better than the Boomer version 130 gauge string. It doesn't have red silk on it, but it sounds better.

OK, so tapered windings at the ball end help keep the mass down and the low B/E string more in line with the timbre of the rest of the set?

 

[micguy]

26890029[/URL], member: 109839"]OK, so tapered windings at the ball end help keep the mass down and the low B/E string more in line with the timbre of the rest of the set?

They reduce the stiffness at the bridge end of the string, which helps the harmonics last longer.

 

[michael_t]

OK, so tapered windings at the ball end help keep the mass down and the low B/E string more in line with the timbre of the rest of the set?

They reduce the stiffness at the bridge end of the string, which helps the harmonics last longer.

This has been my experience with "tapered B vs. non-tapered B".

 

[markanini]

If you have the habit of setting your witness point at the nut, don't be too heavy handed about it.

 

[alex1fly]

This has been my experience with "tapered B vs. non-tapered B".

Cool. I'll hunt down a tapered B one of these days and try it. Any way to know in advance if a B is tapered?

If you have the habit of setting your witness point at the nut, don't be too heavy handed about it.

Huh. Never thought about this. But read this article and it makes sense especially for thicker strings like low E and Bs! Thanks! String Seating and Witness Points — Haze Guitars

 

[michael_t]

I'll hunt down a tapered B one of these days and try it. Any way to know in advance if a B is tapered?

It should tell you whether the B is tapered or not as part of the description for any string set. For example, 125T, 130T, etc... (T for tapered).

Never thought about this. But read this article and it makes sense especially for thicker strings like low E and Bs! Thanks! String Seating and Witness Points — Haze Guitars

Witness Points: The Pictorial

 

[alex1fly]

It should tell you whether the B is tapered or not as part of the description for any string set. For example, 125T, 130T, etc... (T for tapered).



Witness Points: The Pictorial

Mind blown after 25 years of music-ing. Thanks!

 

[markanini]

Be careful though, I went overkill setting the witness point a few times and it killed my overtones.

Also I'll mention strings that have large core vs wrap wire tend to sound muddier. Usually these strings are stiffer feeling too.