Double Bass Would a mic work live with my band?

[Clarkybass]

Hi all, I play in a six-piece eclectic folk/blues/flamenco combo (two vocals, drums, acoustic guitar, mandolin and me on DB). My favourite DB tonally (I have two) is my Kolstein Busetto travel bass. This sounds superb played acoustically but I have not found a pickup yet that comes close to replicating this sound in an amplified band setting (my amps are an AI Ten2 and, for smaller gigs, a a PJ Briefcase; I havean LR Baggs Venue DI preamp in front of the AI at loud gigs for feedback control).

My question is whether any mic would work in my band's live setting and allow me to replicate the Kolstein's acoustic sound or whether this is impossible given volume-related feedback issues and the fact I generally play on smallish stages near the drums and with PA monitors usually in front of me? I read lots of good things about the DPA 4099B mic, for example, but its a big investment (and sell-on loss!) If its a 'fail' live in my set-up. Also I do see quite a few DBers selling on DB microphones, usually on the basis of apparent impracticality live. Hence my question

 

[Ric Vice]

My favourite DB tonally (I have two) is my Kolstein Busetto travel bass. This sounds superb played acoustically but I have not found a pickup yet that comes close to replicating this sound in an amplified band setting (my amps are an AI Ten2 and, for smaller gigs, a a PJ Briefcase; I have a LR Baggs Venue DI preamp in front of the AI at loud gigs for feedback control).

My main bass is a 5/8 size Mirecourt. Since it's a smaller instrument, I find that amplifying it is a little easier than a 3/4 size instrument. Your Kolstein Busetto is even smaller, so even though it doesn't put out as much volume acoustically, you may be able to play it louder through a P.A. using the DPA 4099 B. I've had great success sending the DPA 400 FOH.

My question is whether any mic would work in my band's live setting and allow me to replicate the Kolstein's acoustic sound or whether this is impossible given volume-related feedback issues and the fact I generally play on smallish stages near the drums and with PA monitors usually in front of me?

Even with the DPA 40099 B, that's going to be a bit of a problem. It will pickup the drums, and unless you have separate monitor sends for the bass, it's going to feedback. The question is whether or not it will give you enough signal before it starts to feedback. Since it's a miniature shotgun condenser, it's isolation is very good, but drums bounce of everything.

I read lots of good things about the DPA 4099B mic, for example, but its a big investment (and sell-on loss!) If its a 'fail' live in my set-up. Also I do see quite a few DBers selling on DB microphones, usually on the basis of apparent impracticality live. Hence my question

I've used the DPA 4099 on several occasions in large halls, it works the best of any mike I've ever used. It doesn't work well directly into an amp, ,as feedback is still an issue. Since I have Walter Woods Amplifiers, my ability to EQ feedback very good, but I don't have the added ability the AI provides, with it's low cut and notch filters, that's always a plus with a mic, and the Ten2 will provide phantom power as well. Whether or not it's going to work onstage with all those instruments, is a crap shoot. The DPA sounds infinitely better than most pickups, but it's still a mic. I believe you can also reverse the phase on that amp somehow. That's a useful tool as well, provided it works. It's only beneficial if it gets at the offending frequency.

Ric

 

[Clarkybass]

Hey Ric, many thanks for a really useful and considered answer. It sounds to me, taking all you say together, that there's a pretty high chance that - in my particar band setup and the types of stage I play - I would struggle to avoid feedback and picking up the druns, even with all the bells and whistles on my Ten2. I will think on as I have some studio recording coming up and the 4099B sounds like it would be excellent for this. Again, many thanks Ric!

 

[Ric Vice]

Hey Ric, many thanks for a really useful and considered answer. It sounds to me, taking all you say together, that there's a pretty high chance that - in my particar band setup and the types of stage I play - I would struggle to avoid feedback and picking up the druns, even with all the bells and whistles on my Ten2. I will think on as I have some studio recording coming up and the 4099B sounds like it would be excellent for this. Again, many thanks Ric!

DPA actually designed that mic for live sound re enforcement applications. I have only used it once to record through. It sounded fine, but, IMHO, there are lots better choices for studio recording than the 4099 B, unless you can't isolate the bass because of the size of the studio or proximity to other instruments.

Ric

 

[Roger Davis]

Well, I've bought the bass from Clarky now. It works very well with a BassMax in the G wing going into a Clarus/10" Wizzy via a Fishman Pro eq. It's just a tad quiet on the E but I think I can live with that. Otherwise I'll fit a second BM and blend them in the two channel Clarus.

One advantage of the Kolstein is the shorter (than DB) distance from the bridge to the tailpiece so I have modified the jack connector to hang from the underside of the tailpiece. I don't particularly like suspending the connector on the afterlength.

The K has a nicely focused sound and I think it's going to do me well in the smaller rooms where often the DB sound, going into the amp, is a bit too huge.

 

[Clarkybass]

Hi Roger! I pick up the removable-necked Kolstein tomorrow night so I am looking forward to experimenting with getting a good amplified sound with that. Its former owner reckoned it sounded great with a BassMax so maybe this is the best match for this particular bass? I am still intrigued as to how this would sound with DPA 4099B but its an expensive experiment if it doesn't work out.

 

[bassist14]

clarky
if you live in england, try this chinese dpa clone:#Invalid Link Removed

 

[Clarkybass]

clarky
if you live in england, try this chinese dpa clone:#Invalid Link Removed

Wow, now that is cheap! Thanks for heads up

 

[BrandonEssex]

I may be able to help. I'm making ribbon mics for acoustic bass, and have been having good success with them playing live with several different groups. A loud bass and a moderate stage volume certainly help I'm just about ready to sell them, the website will be live quite soon. PM me for more details.

 

[Ric Vice]

clarky
if you live in england, try this chinese dpa clone:#Invalid Link Removed

It will be interesting to see how this mic comes out in the wash, as I'm sure that DPA has some pattens on the 4099, especially here in the U.S.. The mount is almost a dead on copy of the DPA adaptor. It's @$120.00 for the bass mount mic and case. Here's a link to the site
Invalid Link Removed

Unfortunately, there are no specs on the mic, I'd want to see those before I spent my money.


Ric

 

[neddyrow]

Anyone out there try the thomann? I'm on the fence about getting a DPA 4099B. I'd like to get the DPA but the price tag is a bit high and if this guy is almost as good, I'd like to pull the trigger on this one instead.

 

[deste]

Hi.
When I play "acoustic" gigs (tango quartet, folk, anyway drumless groups) I use my old Etek condenser mic (I can name the brand, they don't produce them anymore...) right on the f-hole (G string side) and it works great, both for pizzicato and arco.
When there's a drummer, things start being harder: usually I send my old Underwood (for more aggressive sounds, or GullanskyLab Notturno when softer) to my old GK mb150, while the mic (grabbing also something from the amp) goes to the PA. Anyway, it grabs also a lot of bass drum and floor tom. Almost impossible to isolate.
I noticed the Thomann, it may be good or not, as always happens with chinese stuff.
I tested the DPA for a short while, and it works very well, but it always grabs the drums.
Note: I'm endorsing a small manufacturer (see disclosure), so I wouldn't exagerate in praising his products, but his piezos are great, and he's improving the condenser mic.
Anyway, the trouble with mics is that they should be played on a wide stage, with a good sound technician, with well set monitors, and so on. And this doesn't happen too often in club gigs...
My suggestion would be to have a wider range of possibilities, so you can adapt to different venues needing different sounds.

 

[bassist14]

Anyone out there try the thomann?

i had the thomann ovid and the dpa.
the ovid is absolutely worth what you pay for.
the dpa too